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No problem. It is a dream come
true for a know-it-all like me! And in case anyone was wondering, i didn't write
that, I stole it like all my reference materials.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 1:27
PM
Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Starter Drags when
Engine is At Operating Temp.
Well David,
I must say this makes really sense!
Thanks for sharing your training material with us
:)
Robert
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 7:21
PM
Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Starter Drags
when Engine is At Operating Temp.
This is from one of my training materials:
In metal conductors, electrical current flows due to the
exchange of electrons between atoms. As electrons move through a
metal conductor, some collide with atoms, other electrons or
impurities. These collisions cause resistance and generate heat.
Heating the metal conductor causes atoms to vibrate more, which
in turn makes it more difficult for the electrons to flow,
increasing resistance. Thus, when a conductor is heated, as in
being too close to a heat source such as an exhaust pipe, the
conductivity goes down, as the resistance goes up (Conductivity
in Siemens = 1/Resistance in Ohms). As resistance goes up,
current goes down, and the motor eventually stops turning.
Here is a really nifty visual representation. You will need
Java installed to see it:
http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/education/tutorials/java/heatresistance/index.html
| |
--
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----
Christopher H <imperial67@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I humbly have to
disagree with that. My '67's original starter exhibited
exactly these
symptoms as it got near the end of its life after 124,000
miles. Hot
starts (meaning any time the engine was at normal temp)
became
increasingly difficult due to thermal expansion of the starter
from the
ambient heat of the exhaust and engine, which caused excessive
draw due to
the increased friction.
It took well over a year
(which for me was only a couple hundred miles) for
the starter to finally
(and slowly) crank its last. Thankfully I had a
rebuilt unit and my tools
in the trunk and a few extra hours in my office
garage one Sunday night
and I was good to go (which is not to say wrestling
a 75-lb starter out
of an Imperial is child's play!). And the new starter
completely cured
the hot starting challenge.
Chris in LA
67 Crown
78 NYB
Salon
On 3/23/07 9:44 AM, randalpark@xxxxxxx at
randalpark@xxxxxxx wrote:
> Internal parts expansion should NOT be
a problem with these cars. If
> the engine is getting that hot, it
isn't going to run very much longer.
> The only cause I have ever
experienced with this symptom (starter drag
> when warm) on any of my
Imperials has been the timing issue. For me,
> starter trouble has
always simply resulted in a total failure of the
> unit, out of the
clear blue sky without any warning.
>
> Paul W.
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: R.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To:
mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 8:32 AM
>
Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Starter Drags when Engine is At Operating
Temp.
>
> Thanks Paul for your sharing your
knowledge!
> As always to the point, and very
helpful!
>
> I will give it a try then and back off
the timing a little, too see
> what happens.
> The reason
I gave it a little extra adventage is to compensate the
> slight power
loss that you get when you convert an engine to run on LPG
> (or
propane as it is called in the US).
> You can do this safely
because the octane rating of propane is much
> higher, so you don't
have to worry about pre-ignition (spark knock).
>
>
Another reason for starter drag might be an internal seizure due to
>
expanding of parts inside under influence of the heat, don't you
think?
>
>
> ----- Original Message
----- From: <randalpark@xxxxxxx>
> To:
<mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, March 23,
2007 4:16 PM
> Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Starter Drags when Engine
is At Operating Temp.
>
>> My feeble mind says
that depending on where the engine is when it
> stops, > if the
ignition is firing, pushing the piston down, while the
> starter is
> trying to push it up the starter will drag. If too many
> pistons
are doing > this at the same time, the engine will be difficult
>
to crank. It can > happen when its cold too, but usually is more
>
noticeable, and likely to > occur when the engine is warmed up.
Over
> the years I have been in this > situation a number of times.
Correcting
> the timing has reduced the load on > the
starter.
>>
>> My father actually once talked
a guy he worked with into rebuilding
> the > engine in a car that
was doing the same thing, after he replaced
> the > starter. My
father, who is a mechanical engineer, convinced the
> guy that > he
had a spun bearing, and that the engine was going to
> seize, even
though > the car ran fine once it started. The new engine
> didn't
fix the problem. > Further discussion led to the fact that the
>
guy habitually advanced his > timing, even on his new "long
block"
> engine, a little bit past factory > specification to get a
little extra
> "UMPHF". When he backed it off, the > problem went
away.
>>
>> As I have explained before, my
knowledge is based on practical
> experience. > I am not an
engineer, chemist, or scientist. What I share
> has worked for >
me. I road time my cars, I do not use a light. When
> they are too far
> advanced, they spark knock, which is damaging to the
> engine.
They can be > difficult to turn over, particularly when warmed
>
up. There are several > different problems that can cause this
same
> symptom. I am suggesting one > idea that might correct
it.
>>
>> In your shoes, I would back off the
timing and see if the problem
> went > away, before replacing the
starter, especially since you know
> that the > timing is
advanced..
>>
>> Paul W.
>>
-----Original Message-----
>> From:
R.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To:
mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 5:27
AM
>> Subject: Re: IML: 1960 Starter Drags when Engine is At
Operating
> Temp.
>>
>> Sorry Paul, but
I don't understand...
>>
>> How can the
timing influence the rotation speed of a starter motor??
>> I
must admit that my timing is too advanced hower, it's about 12.5
>
degrees > BTDC instead of the recommended 10 degrees. That is
because
> the engine is > running on propane instead of
gasoline.
>> Since propane has a much higher octane rating
then regular gasoline
> it is > safe to advance the timing a
little, and it gives the engine
> more power.
>>
>> But I don't understand why this also influence the
performance of the
>> starter motor when the engine has been warmed
up ?
>>
>> Maybe you can shine a light on it
for me :)
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Robert
>> ----- Original Message -----
From: <randalpark@xxxxxxx>
>> To:
<mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, March
23, 2007 12:36 PM
>> Subject: IML: 1960 Starter Drags when
Engine is At Operating Temp.
>>
>> That will
also happen if the timing is too advanced. Try backing it
>
off
>> a little and see if the problem goes away. Heat
shouldn't effect the
>> starter that much.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> -----Original
Message-----
>> From:
R.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To:
mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 2:50
AM
>> Subject: Re: IML: Wire Wheels for my 60
imperial
>>
>> OK James,
>>
>> I understand, maybe the best thing I can do is to find me
a reputable
>> rebuilder and send him my original
starter.
>> You see, mine is having problems when it is
getting hot. The starter
>> spins perfectly when the car is
cold, but when the car is driven for
> a
>> while and
the engine has warmed up it turns around very slow.
>> If you
wait for an hour or so the starter will act normal again
:)
>>
>> Robert
>> -----
Original Message -----
>> From: James L
BURTON
>> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 11:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: IML:
Wire Wheels for my 60 imperial
>>
>> Hello,
no I havent I think its not worth all of the opposition and
>
the
>> hassle to go with the little outcome of the result.
The msd ingnition
>> system has to be on its toes. To have
the least effect against my
>> oringinal starter. The header
issue isnt worth the gamble when Im
> just
>> going to
use it for cruisins, and some kind of shows .My motor is
>>
allthat and im not going risk nothing because everything shiney and
>
new
>> will make you feel that way.
>> -----
Original Message -----
>> From: Rob van der
Es
>> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 1:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: IML:
Wire Wheels for my 60 imperial
>>
>> Hi
James,
>>
>> Have you actually found another
starter for your 60 already?
>> I am still looking around for
the best option you see.
>>
>>
Thanks,
>>
>> Robert
>> -----
Original Message -----
>> From: James L
BURTON
>> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:35 PM
>> Subject: IML: Wire
Wheels for my 60 imperial
>>
>> To everybody
thank you for your support on helping me make a sound
>>
decision on the hi output starter, and header for my . There both
out
>> now Im looking for some wire wheels , Does anybody
know if a ford
> wire
>> wheel will fit the imperial ?
If not can somebody help me ?
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