Re: IML: Problem with exhaust manifold studs...

["Rob van der Es" <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Thanks again Dave,

I will buy a bottle of thread cutting oil then!
I don't want to end up with a broken cobalt drill in the stud...

Rob

Op Do, 10 mei, 2007 10:55 pm, schreef sosmi@xxxxxxxxxxx:
> Rob, sorry I didn't realize you were "OVER THERE" and not in our back
> yard. The reason for thread cutting oil,( which plumbers also use to
> thread iron, and galvanized pipe), it has sulfur, and other additives, to
> reduce friction, and dissipate the heat from drilling, or taping. Don't
> use motor oil or other spray lubes, broken drill bits, and striped taps,
> will result.Wish you well, Dave.
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Rob van der Es" <R.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
> Thanks again Dave,
>
>
> I will find me a nice set of fresh Cobalt drils then :)
> Btw, what is the reason for only using thread cutting oil?
> Why not a little WD 40 or light engine oil for e.g.?
>
>
> I will ask the machine shop if they know what an Easy Out is, I never
> heard of it before nor do I know if they are available in the
> Netherlands..
>
>
> Lucky enough I know for sure where to buy Heli coils if I need them!
>
>
> I will make sure to seal the studs with a good sealer!
>
>
> Thanks again,
>
>
> Rob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: sosmi@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 8:27 PM
> Subject: Re: IML: Problem with exhaust manifold studs...
>
>
>
> Rob, we've used Cobalt drill bits exclusively, with some cutting oil as
> the lubricant.The studs are usually a grade 5, fairly hard, but can be
> drilled, with cobalt.Medium speed, with lots of lube.(use ONLY thread
> cutting oil)You will have to drill in progressive steps to remove the
> stud. There's a chance you can use an "EASY-OUT" if you drill to the
> max.The problem with the easy-out is,they tend to expand the the remains
> of the stud/bolt, and impead the removal, and if you were to break the
> easy out, then there's no hope.If you have to go over-sized on the hole,
> use a HELI-COIL insert, seal the studs with Leak-Lock sealer.You can find
> it at refrigeration supply houses.That about it, except for luck.Dave
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Rob van der Es" <R.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
> Thanks Dave,
>
>
> I like the idea of a 90 degree drill!
> I have a dremel and can attach a 90 degree device to it, and I hope that I
> can reach the last stud.
>
> Since the studs are heated up and cooled down so often, will that make
> the studs softer or harder?
>
> Are there special drills available for this kind of job then?
>
>
> I don't know for sure if my skills are good enough (the only way to find
> out is trying I am afraid..) but at least I think that I have the
> patience.
>
> Have a nice day too,
>
>
> Rob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: sosmi@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 6:03 PM
> Subject: Re: IML: Problem with exhaust manifold studs...
>
>
>
> Rob, all I can say is the out-look is grim.Drilling the studs out will
> take patients, and skill, with the drill. The only way to access the back
> stud, would be a 90degree drill, with a helper with a good eye to keep
> you in proper alignment. If you choose to use the remaining studs to hold
> the manifold in place, keep in mind the manifold uses all the studs to
> help  transfer the heat from the manifold to the cylinder head. Thats why
> there were no manifold gaskets on the manifolds from the factory. The
> results may lead to a cracked manifold, or exhaust leaks. In any event, I
> don't see an easy fix.Ya'll have a nice day, Dave. -------------- Original
> message -------------- From: "Rob van der Es" <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
>> Hi Paul and the rest of the IML gang,
>>
>>
>> I need some expert advise with regard to the exhaust manifold studs of
>> my 1960 Imperial.
>> For 10 days ago I broke the exhaust manifold flange of the left
>> manifold... I noticed a a roadbump too late and was hitting it with too
>> much speed, since the whole exhaust system is pretty rigid the impact
>> was given directly to the cast iron manifold..
>>
>> With the restult that the flange has broken..
>> I found myself a reputable cast iron welder that has done the job many
>> times before so with a little luck I will have my manifold back early
>> next week.
>>
>> But now for the real problem: when taking the manifold off two studs
>> were bro ken.... Despite of several overnight soaking sessions with
>> penetrating oil!
>>
>> The number two stud (counting from the radiator) and the last stud are
>> broken and almost flush with the head. Ofcourse I can try if the 4
>> remaining studs and bolts will secure the manifold but I simply don't
>> like the idea.
>>
>> On the otherhand, I either don't like the idea of taking the head off.
>> And at least the last stud is very difficult (or not..) accessible with
>> the head in place. So maybe I should aim for the second stud to come out.
>>
>>
>> Both studs are almost flushed with the head surface (slightly below
>> actually). Is there a safe way to get them out?
>> Or should I try to secure the manifold with the 4 remaining nuts and see
>>  what happens?
>>
>> If this doesn't work out, how do I remove those broken studs then?
>> And where can I buy new studs for my engine?
>>
>>
>> Ofcourse I can try to drill out the number two studs since I think I
>> can access this one from the left front wheel area (with the left front
>> wheel removed ofcourse).
>>
>> But what if I screw up and the studs doesn't come out, since these
>> studs are in the cooling fluid area it is important that I don't cause
>> any leakage. If I break a drill for e.g. while it is just through the
>> center of the stud (if I am lucky..) and the broken part gets stuck,
>> cooling fluid will escape then!!
>>
>> So should I go for the 4 studs fasting method first?
>>
>>
>> Any words of whisdom??
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Robert
>> 1960 Imperial Crown
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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