Re: [FWDLK] O/T tariffs

["Bill K." <pontiac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

In the 1800s and early 1900s the US had tariffs of 40% or more on imported
goods.   Now, we have little or none.  Not only that the government ran
virtually on those tariffs and nothing else, and we had no income taxes.
Thats a subject for a whole other rant, though.  Where did our manufacturing
go?  Why are GM and Ford closing plants and unable to make a profit even
thoiugh they're selling plenty of cars?

Because in part of imports from places where they can pay workers a dollar a
day and sell it here for thousands less and still make a profit.

This is what happened to the television making industry in the US.  The
Japanese and other makers dumped their product here at a loss for so long
that by the time the US makers got a favorable court decision, it was too
late - all that was left was Zenith, and they were sold to someone who
promptly moved the plant to Mexico.

Now they're farming out office type work for technical support - you call
the 800 number and get John, except you know darn well it's not his real
name because they don't name people that in India.


If the foreign carmakers had to pay a 40% tax per sale on autos made outside
of the US or with more than a certain percentage of parts made outside of
the US, it would bring everything back into line.  Prices would go up, to be
sure, but it would become profitable for the US carmakers to sell their
products cheaper than the foreign carmakers, and you'd save industry in the
US.   That way if God forbid we do have another major war, we have the
infrastructure to support it.

I mean, if we need tanks and planes are we going to go to Japan and China
for those?  In WWII we had no new cars for nearly 4 years because we made
equipment to fight with.  If all those factories are closed, who builds them
now?


Not only that it's good for this country to be able to be independent of the
rest of the world, given the hostile attitude many nations have.   If we do
it all in-house, and some country decides they shouldn't sell their stuff
here, so what?


It's a complex issue, that's for sure.  But to bring this around to
on-topic, Canada's rules about imports and content are why you have goofy
Canada models that use Plymouth bodies and motors, Pontiacs that use
Chevrolet chassis and running gear, and so forth.  They had to have Canadian
content, and the sales volume didn't justify the expense of importing all of
the various models to build there.



Bill K.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Watson" <wwatson5@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] 1958 Dodge Production


> Japanese manufactures pay local, state and federal sales taxes, as nothing
> can be done to avoid them.  And they are stuck paying taxes on their
> buildings and real estate holdings plus any 'employee' taxes (is. social
> services, etc.)..
>
> As for paying outrageous prices on imported parts in order to escape
> American income taxes, that makes no sense.  Charging more for imported
> Japanese parts inflates the profits of the Japanese parent.which results
in
> paying more Japanese income taxes which are higher than American.
>
> Also, the American subsidiaries pay dividends to the Japanese parent which
> generally lowers taxes payable in North America.   So price gouging really
> makes no sense.
>
> Besides, Toyota's own financial reports, for example,  show Toyota's North
> American operations with a US $2.2 billion profit (before taxes) for the
> 6-month period ending September 30, 2005.  The Japanese market produced a
> net income of US $3.2 billion (before taxes) for the same period.   So the
> Japanese firms are paying their fair share of income taxes.
>
> Where do people come up with these ideas?
>
> Bill
> Vancouver, BC
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Homstad" <dhomstad@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 1:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [FWDLK] 1958 Dodge Production
>
>
> > This subject of Imports really is one of my pet peeves. The US has a
great
> > trade deficit, which is primarily due to 2 issues. The lower cost of
labor
> > is one, but that is nothing we can do much about. The other is what I
> > consider unfair trade practices with most other countries. The US
> generally
> > has low or no tariffs on imports, when compared to other countries. Ever
> try
> > to import a US car into Japan? Their tariffs are like 50 or 100%! My
> > suggestion is that the US should have a law that imposes the same tariff
> on
> > other countries goods that they impose on ours. The other country sets
the
> > tariff. We just use their number. If Japan's tariff is 50% on US cars,
> then
> > ours is 50% on Japanese cars. If US goods were available with lower
> tariffs,
> > they would be cheaper and sell better, lower the trade deficit and
> increase
> > jobs in the US.
> >
> > Another issue is corporate income taxes. Everybody thinks that since the
> > Japanese build cars in the US, they pay corporate taxes here like
> everybody
> > else. They pay little or no taxes. They simply buy a few car parts from
> > Japan at many times their real value, say a transmission at $5000. All
the
> > profit goes to Japan and the US based division makes no profit, and thus
> > pays no taxes. The real reason Japan builds cars here is that the cost
of
> > labor and shipping from Japan is actually higher than the cost of
building
> > cars here. Notice that they always build their plants in low labor cost
> > areas of the country where the UAW union is non-existent?
> >
> > Dave Homstad
> > 56 Dodge D500
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Forward Look Mopar Discussion List
> > [mailto:L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Bill Watson
> > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:30 AM
> > To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [FWDLK] 1958 Dodge Production
> >
> > You are right about CKD, but do not understand the term "dumping".
> > "Dumping" is where a country exports goods to other markets at prices
> lower
> > than sold on the home market.    And, no, you cannot "dump" product in
the
> > United States as the American government does go after any country fhey
> > perceive as "dumping" goods, real or imagined.  The "imagined" dumping
> > arises when the American government decides to support an industry that
is
> > having difficulty keeping its head above water - the steel industry, for
> > example.
> >
> > The United States of America most certainly does have import duties on
> > imported vehicles, which is why Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. have opened
> > assembly plants in the U.S.  For the more popular models, it is more
> > economical to assemble vehicles in the U.S. with parts from American
> > suppliers along with some imported parts than to get nailed with import
> > tariffs on the whole vehicle.   So the United States market is not so
> > different from Australia, etc. except that the import duties are not as
> > high.
> >
> > The United States of America is the only country I know of that has a
> > special VIN digit to denote vehicles assembled in the United States with
> > mostly imported parts - "4".   The first digit on the VIN adopted for
the
> > 1981 models year for cars sold in North America denotes the country of
> > origin.,  When Diamond-Star first started building cars for Mitsubishi
and
> > Chrysler they had to use "4" as the first digit of the VIN as they used
> more
> > imported parts than American.  ("1" is for the United States, "2" for
> > Canada, "3" for Mexico, "6" for Australia, "9" for Brazil while letters
> are
> > used for European and Asian countries.)
> >
> > The British assembly plant at Kew assembled vehicles using imported
> bodies,
> > chassis, drivetrain, glass, etc. and used British suppliers for its
> 12-volt
> > electrical systems, leather interiors and other bits.  British auto
> > manufacturers were really into leather back then.   And during the
1930's
> > Chrysler Great Britain had a unique serial number for each vehicle they
> > built, along with the American or Canadian serial number.
> >
> > The Canadian plant was the first foreign plant to get away from CKD
> > production (actually started back in the Maxwell days).  Australia was
> next
> > in 1957 with the Chrysler Royal but Mexico, South Africa, and South
> America
> > did not get away from CKD production and into true local production
until
> > the late 1960's.
> >
> > British auto manufacturers also got into CKD manufacturing with foreign
> > licencees - the first Datsun in 1932 was based on the Austin 7, as was
the
> > BMW Dixie.  The first Datsun cars sold in North America in the early
> 1960's,
> > the Bluebird, clearly showed their Austin heritage in the engine
> > compartment.and body styling.  Isuzu started building Hillman Minx cars
in
> > Japan in the 1950's and many Hillman owners look to more moden Isuzu
> engines
> > and transmissions for their cars as they bolt in with very little
> > modification.  Mitrsubishi built the Henry J car and the Willys Jeep for
> > Asian markets while Hino built the Renault 4CV in the 1950's and 1960's.
> > The first Nissan, by the way, was introduced in late 1937 using the
> tooling
> > for the Graham Crusader purchased from Graham-Paige.
> >
> > By the way when bodies in CKD package are shipped to a plant that does
the
> > final paint coat, the bodies are referred to as "body in white".  As CKD
> > shipments are usually done by ship, steel parts cannot be shpped
> unprotected
> > from the elements.  Thus they are painted white before shipping to
protect
> > the metal against the salt air during transport.
> >
> > Bill
> > Vancouver, BC
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Marv Raguse
> > To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:16 AM
> > Subject: Re: [FWDLK] 1958 Dodge Production
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 2/3/2006 3:28:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> > esierraadj@xxxxxxxxx writes:
> > How did all the materials and componentry, for the Belgium-made cars GET
> > to the Belgium assembly plant?
> >
> > Were there 'duplicate' fabrication facilities, in Europe, or, in
> > essence, were un-assembled cars sent there, to be assembled?
> > CKD refers to "Completely Knocked Down" vehicle.  Parts are stacked and
> > shipped in boxes perhaps as many as 15 to 20 sets of parts in each box.
> Now
> > it may take 10 or more boxes to complete the vehicles but that is how
they
> > go to the place of assembly. At the assembly facility the boxes
would/will
> > be opened and parts stacked along the line.  Frequently some parts are
> sent
> > in assembly alreadyif it makes logistical sense and the import rules
> allow.
> > You can have "Partial Knock Down" also.  Local tariff requirements often
> > dictate.  Only the good ole US is an open market where anyone can dump.
> Some
> > tariffs are 50% and more.  Imagine if an imported Toyota cost that much
> more
> > over here. Or we manadated local content,not NAFTA.  How many would they
> > sell?  Chrysler has, from time to time, CKD'd all around the world.
> > Recently like Thailand for example.  Chrysler CKD'd Jeeps there.  Latin
> > America for trucks and Jeeps. Alot of content goes to Graz, Austria for
> > Jeeps and Voyager Minivans.  Haven't assembled in Belgium or Kew GB in
> many
> > years..Also many countries specify how much content must be local and
how
> > much assembly must be local.
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