RE: [Chrysler300] 300/other values after latest US Auctions?

[Larry Jabin <larry@xxxxxxxxxx>]

When cars are not sold like the '58 DeSoto Adventurer fuelie convert at Mecum Monterey no sale at $375k).

That number is deceiving because the auction (MECUM) does a lot of that bidding to get the price to the reserve

At the Mecum Monterey Auction One lady was selling a rare COBRA part of her deceased husbands collection the bidding got up to $850,000.00
Dana Mecum was trying to get her to take the reserve off but told her that the $850,000.00 bid was one of his peoples, and they could sell it for $750,000.00
which was the last real buyer bid

So at Mecum when they say the BID GOES ON & the high bid was $375,000.00 it is possible that there were no real bidders in the room

Larry Jabin

San Francisco

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of C Bilter
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 3:11 PM
To: 'christopher beilby'; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 300/other values after latest US Auctions?



A few quick thoughts

1) The selling price at auction of a letter car (or any car) will
depend on the condition of the car, the marketplace conditions and the
presence or absence of the right bidders at that point in time.

2) I see three types of buyers at auction IMO that results in widely
variable bids for a given vehicle

a. The collector - buys more on emotion, more interested in the right
car than the right price, goal is enjoyment, cherishes it as a family
heirloom, may assign a name and gender to the vehicle

b. The investor - buys with little or no emotion, focus is on the right
price. Goal is long term capital appreciation. Vehicle may sit in a
warehouse or museum and never get driven

c. The dealer or flipper - buys anything they think they can make a
quick buck on. Example would be the red E that sold at Mecum Des Moines in
July, now on ebay by a dealer out of St. Louis at an 80% markup in price

3) Values on letter cars have been strong at some auctions this year
(e.g RM Amelia Island D 'vert Sold for $203k) and weaker at some. Prices
generally seem a bit depressed for well restored examples evidenced at
auction and on ebay Letter cars went up when Mopar muscle (e.g. Hemi
Cudas) went up to the stratosphere; a correction was probably due. Hemi
Cudas are still way down from four years ago; letter cars less so but still
down from the Barrett-Jackson euphoria of 2006-07. IMO, this is the reason
more than the economy.

4) Nothing beats a great pair of fins. Finnned Mopars are hot (e.g.
'58 DeSoto Adventurer fuelie convert at Mecum Monterey no sale at $375k).
Finned Imperials have gone way up in the last four years, starting with well
resorted 'verts and trickling down to 4 door models. Some have doubled in
value. H, J, K, and L's are superb automobiles that are still relative
bargains.

Carl Bilter

300J (a great rare letter that hasn't gone through the roof in price) in
rainy Iowa

_____

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com>] On
Behalf Of christopher beilby
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:21 AM
To: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Chrysler300] 300/other values after latest US Auctions?

Below follows my thoughts re the recent US Car Auction Results - hit delete
now if not interested, others add comment/rebuttal if they wish.

Only a few mixed comments on the site, after the most recent Monterey
Auctions held by a few of the bigger, more known, US Auction Houses, such as
Mecum, Gooding, and RM. And of most comment 'pre auctions', was the 1960
300F Daytona Flying Mile car, that Mecum had at their auction, it I believe
not selling under the hammer, at around the $300k mark.

Yet at Mecum's same auction, a 1960s Riva wooden speedboat sold, at near
same figure. And the Riva made near same money, as what many might think was
two more desirable/powerful wooden hull boats? And so this made me think,
that maybe people with that sort of money, put using the boat they used a a
more daily plaything, status symbol, up there as equal to, or more
desirable, that having a less useable but better/rarer more historic boat
??!

The Riva could be used near daily on Lake Tahoe, and it would be a real
visible status symbol - like who else has/had one? Money can buy a flash new
plastic boat, but money could not as easy buy another such quality Riva?!

And so this comes back to what are our 300s worth, and what is the future?
And it is only if one also/then goes to RM's Monterey Auction results, one
see a way clearer picture - 'probability', as to what has happened car
values wise 'POST GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS'.

'33 V12 Auburn Convert Sedan $203k, '58 Dual Ghia $159k, '49 Chrysler T&C
convert $110k, '69 427 Cobra $700k, etc etc - real collectible cars of known
stature over years, all selling maybe around old days prices. We may love
our 300s, but I for one would not kick out that splendid looking V12 Auburn
if it in my garage/collection?

A pink metallic '60 Imperial ended at $90k (color may have put some off?!),
a '58 300D in special order blue metallic - and supposed near best of show
resto quality - made $82.5k. That would seem reasonable - cheaper likely
than replacing such a rare 300D, but not a give away price? On that basis a
real near show quality 300C/D coupe should be worth $70-75k - is that about
correct value?!

A Tucker - $1.1million !?? - you decide, that bit hard for me/now. The
likely world's oldest surviving Ford - 1903 - made $325k - and when you also
read it being ordered as a 'near totally cash ran out' Ford about to fold as
monies ran out before ever starting Production, and this order with two
others prevented that, plus it wholly known history, thru only a few owners
since 1903, may make that seem too cheap??!

Ferrari - multiple early one ones, of usual most sought models/years, but a
standout was a magnificent known provenance, one of only 34, 400hp
SuperAmericas, with stunning quality panel lines and paint etc - made mega
$$$milions. Plus other rare cars made over million mark each - go to their
Auction Results website, read the pages list - they have
photos/history/prices. A truly worldclass listing - maybe the Daytona 300F
would have been better here?!

And yet it is another RM Auction Ford that gives a clue to why the 300F
likely ended around $300k, despite it seemingly/clearly a car that ticked
many buyers buttons/boxes. Just as the Daytona 300F was a special build car
to win Daytona - has likely also survived as the best of the best of 1960
300F specials?! - never mind it only such low miles for any 300F, unrestored
ever and not needing it?!

The RM Ford? - In 1957, the last year Manufacturers were allowed to race
(themselves), Ford built 2 Daytona Special Tbirds. One used a big cube
Lincoln Motor, the other a race 312 - both had two motor options, the small
one was either blown or injected. Both cars were virtually custom alloy
paneled TBirds, yet race cars under that skin, and costing was admitted as
much as any Ferrari Supramerica to build - at Daytona 1957 both ran near
never rivalled Factory speeds - the small cube car smashed records. It is
the only survivor, it like the 300F, is today back in original Daytona Race
condition, fully documented history - it known by the named "Battlebird".
Yet it (only?!) sold for $275k. Near same price as Daytona 300F!! So two
different Auction Houses, both with cream of cream colllector cars of
amazing diversity/appeals, and yet both historic racers finish seemingly at
a price you could not replace their history with??! To my knowledge, Ford
never returned to Daytona Beach with such a car ever again - so it like the
Daytona 300F, it the ultimate Factory Daytona Racer ever re Fords?!

So what does all what I have written here likely mean for 300 values, now
and in the future? My personal views, plus how history has seen car values
rise.

1) the name, and having a 'magical elusive mystic' helps, egs, - Ferrari,
sort of self explanatory (even though most grossly over-rated?)!, Tucker -
beats me, but it known today way beyond numbers ever produced for sure, and
re 'mystique', especially re the one that we could never own, as it was
killed before birth?!

2) high horsepower, coupled with class and prestige - adds a fair bit, and
obviously also a nice classy interior is way better/nicer to enjoy that high
speed driving?

3) sexual/sensual looks/appeal - usually vital if chasing mega bucks.

4) rarity and known history/restoration quality.

So if 300 values are holding up OK 'post GFC' - as long as one does not want
a rushed sale where there might only be 'bargain taker likely resellers' ? -
then the ones with the most glamour - fins, chrome, flash/classy knockout
interiors and hemis, and 'cross ram multiple everythings' - are likely to be
the ones to move more upwards when and if things ever recover?!

And lastely to those rarest of rare special performance/history 300s - who
knows?! It has only taken the Ferrari Superamericas, the few Daytona Cobras,
the '30s supercharged 8 cylinder Alfas, etc - only a few years to go from
hundreds of $$$thousands, to now nearing regularly low millions to nearing
ten $$$$millions.

But my feeling is would that ever happen to a GM, Ford, Chrysler production
based car?! - the open Custom bodied top of the line Cadillac, Imperial,
Packard, Duesenbergs of the 30s may be the ones that go nearest to going
into 7 figure sums first. But in the next weeks, maybe that Daytona 300F may
enter that 7 figure sales figure league?

And to that 1903 Ford - if it was not Ford who bought it, my guess if it
comes on the market, just it's history re how it saved Henry Ford such that
he ever delivered his first Ford, without anything else re the amazing car,
should spell nothing below any 7 figure sum is ever likely again?!

Christopher Beilby, in a cold wet showerey southern Australia

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