RE: 452 Heads Question

[Steven Charette <stevec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

All I can offer is my own opinion, which is not necessarily the opinion of
management, etc., etc... 

I think the bigger valves are good bang for the buck, especially on the
exhaust side.  This of course is all relative to your combination, but
generally anything you can do to improve flow makes more horsepower.  These
valve are indeed stainless, and are back-cut and swirl polished to smooth
airflow.  Bear in mind that the combination is way more important than the
individual parts, that is to say how the parts will work in concert.  Ahh,
what I wouldn't give for a little Dulmage guidance right now...

Again IMHO, windage trays are cheap horsepower when using a stock pan.
Matching chambers is a waste of time unless you're trying to kill a
Stock/Super Stock record, IMO roller rockers are way oversold as to how much
power they make.  We're not building small block Chevies here...

It sounds like you're on the same track that I would be on... make some
power with the heads and intake and build the big short-block later.  I
would install new rod bolts for the sake of the shortblock, but other than
that everything should hold up fine.

You can select your springs ahead of time, and don't lose alot of sleep over
ramp speed, cam dynamics, etc.  Just tell the supplier the lift and the type
of cam (hydraulic, mechanical, etc) and they will fix you up with the right
springs.  I personally get all my stuff from Mancini Racing, but any speed
shop or cam supplier worth their salt will steer you in the right direction.
I agree that the old Direct Connection .590 cam is old technology, but
Chrysler was taking full advantage of the lifter diameter and as Joey said
these cams still make a good showing.  I'm gonna stab my old .590 into the
new 499ci stroker in a couple of weeks and I'm sure it will make me proud :)
Hard to justify hundreds of dollars for the new whiz-bang cam of the month
hoping to pick up a tenth...

Again, just my $.02 worth, your actual mileage may vary.  See your dealer
for details.

SC

-----Original Message-----
From: MO ( Steve Mick) [mailto:micher@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:33 AM
To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: 452 Heads Question


Thanks Joey and Steve. If my seats are in good condition ( not sunk)will I
have noticable gain with the 2.14 /1.81 valves? and are they stainless
steel? This will not be necessarily a budget build- just want the most bang
for the buck without going to the nth degree.- probably won't match cc every
combustion chamber exactly the same, probably wont use a windage tray,
probably wont use roller rockers. I will be doing  head work  and using a
Edelbrock performer RPM manifold along with a cam that makes the most torque
and power under 6000 rpm.
 I will have to do this in steps--probably the heads before the shortblock. 
Now if I know the amount of  lift  and my RPM limitations,  Can I select my
valve springs for installed height and no coil binding  before actuall
having the cam? Also  how important is ramp speed in selecting valve
springs. Please excuse all the questions in one post ,  but the answers
really  help in developing my plan. Mucho gratzy :-)  Good luck on your mid
terms Joey! ...............MO...sw  iowa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Charette" <stevec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:55 PM
Subject: RE: 452 Heads Question


>
> I have gotten a couple of sets of 2.14/1.81 valves from a guy on eBay 
> - I believe his user name is Enginebldr or something like that.  
> Anyway you can "buy it now" for less than $120 for a set, or sometimes 
> bid on them and get them for under $100 for the set.  I put them in 
> the early small chamber heads, (usually spending around $200 for new 
> guides and the seat work), then blend the bowls and gasket match the 
> ports.  Had a set of these on a '67 440 with the stock pistons 
> upside-down, a hydraulic cam, and a 750 Holley on the
> '67 cast intake (with a 2" 4 hole spacer) that would run 12.0's all 
> day long in a 3300lb 63 Savoy many moons ago.
>
> SC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joey [mailto:jake4@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:50 PM
> To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: 452 Heads Question
>
>
> Hey Steve,
> They should be 2.08" intake diameter and I think 1.74" exhaust, I 
> don't know what your combination is but if a budget build is the plan 
> then why not get a good three angle valve job and call it a day. 
> Remember, VERY IMPORTANT, make sure the installed height is correct 
> and the springs are compatible with the cam you choose. I have lots of 
> horror stories there from over the years. You would be surprised how 
> many times we have checked new heads out of the box from various  
> aftermarket manufacturers to find the installed heights all over the 
> place and in one case an almost comical mismatch batch of parts. Have 
> your local machine shop check them out before bolting them on. I won't 
> be around too much for awhile, midterms are here, damn summer school 
> is killingh me, LOL Joey
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MO ( Steve Mick)" <micher@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:27 PM
> Subject: Re: 452 Heads Question
>
>
>>
>> Well, good news for me!  I thought the heads I had stashed away were 
>> 906's I dug them out tonight and find that they are actually 452's 
>> Now to clean them up and magnaflux.,  These are large valve heads, 
>> but I think there are slightly larger valves available  ( for sunken 
>> seats?) Would it pay off in performance to use the largest valves  
>> that will fit?..............................MO....sw  iowa
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joey" <jake4@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: 452 Heads Question
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I know of at least 4 cars that have the same combination of ported 
>>> 452's with MP .590 flat tappet cams and Holley street Dominator 
>>> intakes that are consistent 10.70 cars with little maintenance and I 
>>> consider that cam to be a dinosaur with todays available grinds.
>>> Joey
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "SB" <polecat2@xxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:38 PM
>>> Subject: RE: 452 Heads Question
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the early 1970's, when the Hemi was gone from NASCAR, Richard 
>>>> Petty had some of his best seasons.  He used the 346 heads on his 
>>>> cars
> then.
>>>> I agree that the 452 heads, which came later, are the best common 
>>>> heads.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person
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>>>> intended recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This 
>>>> practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail 
>>>> and fine tune the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> '62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
>>>> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----
>>> Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person 
>>> -- directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and 
>>> negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended 
>>> recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will 
>>> protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune 
>>> the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!
>>>
>>> '62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ----
>> Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- 
>> directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and 
>> negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended 
>> recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will 
>> protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune 
>> the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!
>>
>> '62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
>>
>>
>
>
> ----
> Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- 
> directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and 
> negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended 
> recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will 
> protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune 
> the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!
>
> '62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html.
>
>
> ----
> Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- 
> directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and 
> negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended 
> recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will 
> protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune 
> the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!
>
> '62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html.
>
>
>
>
> 


----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations
as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to
the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy,
reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar
topic.  Thanks!

'62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html. 


----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!

'62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html.