O boy does this sound familiar! Friends and family were certain i had a zipper under my car we counted like 50 in/outs trying to figure that exact same thing exactly the way u describe. I finally took an empty trans case and dial indicated the centerline of the crank against center of trans. Low and behold a dowl pin had drifted in in the block allowing the trans to shift out of alignment you are allowd 7 thou of miss allignment and the seal is supposed to seal it but without the dowls to hold it. Every time rhe thing would leak even tried a couple different trannys same thing. Then i fixed the dowl and as yiu say beat on the car merciloisly till the 410 gears surrendered boy they heard them a county block away when they steped out. O well. Next project. Jason
Sent from my Motorola ATRIX™ 4G on AT&T
From: John Hammond <426_maxwedge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2011 05:57:32 GMT+00:00
Subject: 727 Leaking Fluid like it was made in Great Britain
----- Original Message -----
From: 426_maxwedge@xxxxxxxxxxx
To: "The 1962 to 1965 Mopar Mail List Clubhouse"
<1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 11:37 PM
Subject: Torqueflite Flood
This one seems to have everyone stumped and the ordeal so far will make for
a long explanation: so please bear with me, and ANY imput or past
experiences relayed will be most appreciated. My '64 330 wagon has a mild
440 backed by a Full Manual Valve-Bodied 727. Both engine and transmission
are fresh rebuilds from respected shops and have less than 200 miles on
them. Since the 440 is so new, I've been really conservative in driving
style and nothing has seen the high side of 3800rpm yet. Coming home from a
cruise-in a scant 7 miles from my home a few weeks back everything is as
fine as it has been since it's first miles driven. Later that evening the
wife and I decide to go for a bite to eat and drive the wagon to the
restarant. Coming off of a long hill in third at about 50mph something lets
go and pumps most all of the trans-fluid out of the 727 and oils down the
exhaust so bad I thought it was an electrical fire under the dash: car was
so full of smoke it was hard to see out. I get it on the side of the road
and by the time I had the fire extinguisher in hand, the tons of smoke had
dissipated and a wave of trans fluid ran out from underneath the car.
Quickly looking underneath the STREAM of fluid was coming from the
inspection cover slightly to the passenger side from center. Car went home
on a rollback since I hoped it was something like a pump and likely the
internals might be OK. The flood was nice and red and had no burnt scent
from it. I should mention that the wagon has a huge plate style cooler,
(probabaly a quart cap.), and a 1-qt. extra capacity pan along with a new
(10-1/2" ?), mild upgraded convertor.
The transmission shop pulled the 727 out, removed the convertor and
pump - which appeared fine with no signs of damage or failure, replaced the
usual, expected seals, reinstalled everything and started the car which
instantly began pouring out fluid again. Looking behind the convertor with
an inspection mirror while still installed - it appeared as if the convertor
drive snout wasn't engaging the seal in the pump and thereby allowing a
massive leak. Out comes the 727 and the convertor was replaced with a new
stock-type convertor along with all of the previous mentioned seals again
just in case something was pinched or misaligned on the first attempt. Upon
restarting; no leaking is apparant. Testing it in every gear by stalling it
against the brakes after the fluid was up to operating temp no leaks. Car is
deemed fixed and I drove it five miles home. I drove it home slowly in the
rain because of bad wipers but nothing seemed less than ok. Following day I
decided to take a short spin for a better assessment, started it, let it run
for 4 or 5 minutes, no leaks, no smells or smoke, and I started down the
road. In less than 1 mile it has started pumping out the fluid again. Turned
around, parked it, check the dipstick which still shows some fluid at the
very end of the stick and I started making calls.
The drive hub or snout of the convertor shows to have perfect wear
pattern at 200 miles without any galling or scratches. If the bushing in the
front pump was bad, the evidence would show up here in that reguard due to
slop allowing less than concentric alignment. So we can probably rule out,
convertor, pump, and seals at this point. The dipstick is from Lokar, I
called their tech department and verified that the scale is consistantly
calibrated prior to manufacture to an original 727 tube and stick as factory
installed. They stated it was so, and assured me that if seated against the
case the indicated area will yield a correct level reading. The FSM calls
for 7-9 quarts on a stock panned 727. Adding a qt. for the deep pan, a qt.
for the huge cooler, that would bring the total up to around 11 qts. Almost
exactly the amount used to produce the correct level shown on the verified
Lokar dipstick. Hensley Racing when posed with this problem suggests that
the transmission is simply overfilled and the excess is being spit out of
the vent on the forward top portion of the front pump. I agree that the
vent is likely the source of the leak at this time especially considering
the location of the stream of the leak compaired to the location of the vent
hole. What doesn't make sense is why the car made 200 miles prior to the
problem with that amount of fluid and now that the leak has started; nothing
seems to stop it at the same given quantity of fluid installed and level
checked. One other question I've yet to get an answer to is "Venting from
where?" Is this hole in the pump justl ike a hole for a breather in a valve
cover, or is it plumbed/part of, to a specific passage or circuit?
I contacted Turbo-Action tech dept. and told them what I'd been going
through and asked if this could be a valve-body related issue. They said it
was possible, but unlikely. I've used the full-manual reverse-pattern
Cheetah body in a number of cars, without any problems, ever, for decades.
The tech stated that the regulator valve may have stuck allowing pressure to
go unchecked in the high gear servo which would force the fluid out the path
of least resistance ( i.e. the vent or the dipstick tube). The Lokar stick
is seated pretty firmly in the tube I might add. The repair entails removal
of the valve body, removal of the regulator from the body, polish with emory
cloth until smooth activation and release is obtained and reinstall. He
again states that this condition is very rare to occur, however. I surmise
that since it has obviously happened at some time, and since right now, it
is the most logical explanation of the condition I'm experiencing it's the
best guess so far.....but wow it seems really far-fetched. I'm attempting
to contact Pat Blais to see if he has any ideas on this as well, but I've
yet to speak with him. Maybe someone here has some info as to what is
happening and how to address it; or somebody else I should talk to? In all
my years of Mopardom I've never seen or heard of anything like this and
neither had Hensley Racing. I am by no means a transmission guy but one
doesn't need to be with a 727. You simply install it, fill it, and beat on
it unmercifully till the end of time without worry unless you install a
transbrake and/or slicks.... at which point you check on it, occassionally.
Again, if anybody can shed some light on this, I would be most thankful for
your aid... just the transfluid and the bags of oil-dry are approaching my
fuel costs......thanks, John Hammond
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