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Location: The Mile High City | Question - what are the rarest Forward Look cars strictly based on model and body style? This eliminates all the baby-blue this with a D-500 and a three-speed manual that, etc. Let's also kick out all of the Ghia limousines (we all know they are rare).
58 Windsor convertible (2)
58 Adventurer convertible (82)
59 Adventurer convertible (97)
59 300E convertible (140)
58 300D convertible (191)
59 New Yorker convertible (286)
58 Fireflite Shopper (318)
58 Adventurer coupe (350)
58 Town & Country 9p wagon (428)
59 Town & Country 6p wagon (444)
58 Fireflite convertible (474)
57 300C convertible (484)
58 LeBaron sedan (501)
58 Firedome convertible (519)
58 LeBaron South Hampton (538)
59 300E coupe (550)
59 Town & Country 9p wagon (564)
58 Fireflite Explorer (609)
58 300D coupe (618)
58 New Yorker convertible (666)
I must be missing a bunch in here. Are there any low-production '55s, '56s, '60s, '61s that fit in this group? I know there are probably a bunch of '58s and '59s because those were such poor selling years.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2010-10-30 12:23 AM
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Location: Vancouver, Washington | here's a rare one. If anyone finds one...I'll buy it ( :
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Location: Parts Unknown | Methinks he's talking about production cars, ..... although weren't the two 58 Windsors at the
top of the list non-production mock-ups ?
If memory serves, the rarest production DeSoto ever built was the 1942 5th Avenue convertible
with a production number of 5. I believe one is know to survive. It lived in Seattle last I heard.
But then again, this one isn't Forward Look.
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Location: Parts Unknown | Yeah, .... the 58 Windsor ragtop doesn't count. You could not go into a dealer and buy this car.
So, no lottery-odds option combos, no one-off show cars, Ghias, or mock-ups. Just straight
production cars that anyone could walk into a dealer and buy.
Revised List:
58 Adventurer convertible (82)
59 Adventurer convertible (97)
59 300E convertible (140)
58 300D convertible (191)
59 New Yorker convertible (286)
58 Fireflite Shopper (318)
58 Adventurer coupe (350)
58 Town & Country 9p wagon (428)
59 Town & Country 6p wagon (444)
58 Fireflite convertible (474)
57 300C convertible (484)
58 LeBaron sedan (501)
58 Firedome convertible (519)
58 LeBaron South Hampton (538)
59 300E coupe (550)
59 Town & Country 9p wagon (564)
58 Fireflite Explorer (609)
58 300D coupe (618)
58 New Yorker convertible (666)
It would be interesting to do a comprehensive search to see how many of each survive and
tabulate the percentage ratios of known survivors for a secondary rarity study. Although few
300c convertibles were built, I see them probably more than any other 57 Chrysler ragtop today.
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Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-10-30 1:34 AM
It would be interesting to do a comprehensive search to see how many of each survive and
tabulate the percentage ratios of known survivors for a secondary rarity study. Although few
300c convertibles were built, I see them probably more than any other 57 Chrysler ragtop today.
Intresant topic
Chrysler Windsor 1959 conv I know left Total: 8 off 961 built
3 in Sweden (two running and one poject)
5 in US (4 running and one projekt with no top frame...)
Since I bought mine, I have been looking and asking for 12 years after Windsor and found a total of eight Windsor conv of different shape.
They seem to be scrapped or removed the body released for 300 cars.
Sure, they may be more, but I wish more facts from those who know more
Are there more people who have an eye on their model, how many you know who is left?
Edited by Windsor59 2010-10-30 3:09 AM
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Location: milano, italy | 337 Chrysler 300 G convertibles built in 61 |
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Location: Sept. 1958 | 1960 Chrysler New Yorker Convertible (556)
1960 Chrysler 300F Convertible (248)
1961 Chrysler New Yorker Convertible (Cannot find # but I bet it's low, anybody?) |
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Location: Seville, OH | Dodge D-501s were available at the dealer. ~102 produced. |
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Location: Iowa USA | 1957 Adventurer converts 300 |
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Location: Iowa USA | No production numbers known on this export only model
1958 Desoto Diplomat ragtop
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Location: Parts Unknown | Philosophical Question No.29
At what point does a car become a DeSoto ?
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Location: Las Vegas, NV | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-10-30 10:52 AM
Philosophical Question No.29
At what point does a car become a DeSoto ?
The second the Plymouth factory slaps that nameplate on it.  |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Las Vegas, NV | What I am most curious to find out is how many of each of the forward look cars are currently registered with a DMV. Is there any way to get that info? |
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Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | 1957 Plymouth, 2dr, hd top, with 4 miles on it....(Miss Belvedere) |
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Location: Iowa USA | spider89119 - 2010-10-30 1:01 PM
Doctor DeSoto - 2010-10-30 10:52 AM
Philosophical Question No.29
At what point does a car become a DeSoto ?
The second the Plymouth factory slaps that nameplate on it. : )
Does that include trucks too?
Probably only one or two made none know to survive yet.
Does anyone have a count on Dodge sweptside trucks that had forward look styling or the even more rare Fargo sweptside that at least one is still alive
Edited by roadkillontheweb 2010-10-30 2:31 PM
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Location: Las Vegas, NV | christine-lover - 2010-10-30 5:27 AM
1961 Chrysler New Yorker Convertible (Cannot find # but I bet it's low, anybody?)
576
Edited by spider89119 2010-10-30 2:29 PM
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Location: Plymouth Spaceport | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-10-30 1:52 PM
Philosophical Question No.29
At what point does a car become a DeSoto ?
Philosophical Question No.30
What is the sound of two fins clapping? |
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Location: Las Vegas, NV | 1960DesotoAdventurer - 2010-10-30 11:30 AM
Doctor DeSoto - 2010-10-30 1:52 PM
Philosophical Question No.29
At what point does a car become a DeSoto ?
Philosophical Question No.30
What is the sound of two fins clapping? : )
Why that's simply going through the crusher sideways.  |
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Location: Iowa USA | 1960DesotoAdventurer - 2010-10-30 1:30 PM
Doctor DeSoto - 2010-10-30 1:52 PM
Philosophical Question No.29
At what point does a car become a DeSoto ?
Philosophical Question No.30
What is the sound of two fins clapping? : )
Sounds like a Florida rust job were they rust from the top down |
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Location: Iowa USA | Do they have to be full scale cars?
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | 1956 D500-1 race cars--factory production vehicles : way less than 100 ; probably 25.
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Location: Plymouth Spaceport | the rarest Forward Look car is the one with no rust! |
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Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | roadkillontheweb - 2010-10-30 1:28 PM
No production numbers known on this export only model
1958 Desoto Diplomat ragtop
Hi Lee Exline
Yes it is many rare export modell ho is very rare. |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | The Crown Imperial limousines bodied by Ghia:
1957 36
1958 31
1959 7
1960 16
1961 9
1962 0
1963 10
1964 10
1965 10 |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | Yeah, I know you kicked out the Ghia limos. I am not sure why when you are asking for RARE so I just thought it was fair to show their production numbers. |
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Location: Delray Beach, FL | Let's not forget 1961 Imperial convertibles: 429 |
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Posts: 1150
Location: Southern California | all of em'  |
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Location: Parts Unknown | spider89119 - 2010-10-30 2:07 PM
What I am most curious to find out is how many of each of the forward look cars are currently registered with a DMV. Is there any way to get that info?
I don't know, but that would be cool if there was a way - I'd love to know . . .
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Location: The Mile High City | I am reluctant to knock the 58 Windsor convertible out - Dodge made a "mock-up" of the '59 Regal Lancer, but you never see that in 1959 Dodge production figures! Every account of 1958 Chrysler production numbers I have seen lists those two Windsors. Good point: John Q could not walk into a dealer and buy one, but something is different about them from a true mock-up one-of-a-kind! I didn't throw in the 501s or the dash ones because that opens the door for the pont-a-mousson 300Fs, the '58 EFIs, and the slope gets slipperier from there. I appreciate the production list for Ghias (they are true rarities). There must be some more rare wagons or some rare '56s or '55s in there?
58 Windsor convertible (2)
58 Adventurer convertible (82)
59 Adventurer convertible (97)
59 300E convertible (140)
58 300D convertible (191)
60 300F convertible (248)
59 New Yorker convertible (286)
57 Adventurer convertible (300)
58 Fireflite Shopper (318)
61 300G convertible (337)
58 Adventurer coupe (350)
58 Town & Country 9p wagon (428)
59 Town & Country 6p wagon (444)
58 Fireflite convertible (474)
57 300C convertible (484)
58 LeBaron sedan (501)
58 Firedome convertible (519)
58 LeBaron South Hampton (538)
59 300E coupe (550)
60 New Yorker convertible (556)
59 Town & Country 9p wagon (564)
61 New Yorker convertible (576)
58 Fireflite Explorer (609)
58 300D coupe (618)
58 New Yorker convertible (666)
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Location: Parts Unknown | If John Q. Public could not go down and buy a particular car, then what's the point ?
I consider Forward Look cars to be "genuine" based on their largest market - the U.S., and all other stuff
falls "special notations" ..... like Canadian models, export models, mock-ups and show cars, race cars, etc., etc.
I can't think of a better word for them than "genuine" at the moment, and that seems totally wrong as well. Maybe
"basic" or "general" is a better term ???? The point being, Mother Mopar kicked out the vast majority of her
product under the guise of so many makes and models, and then there is all that SPECIAL stuff that just doesn't
fit into that basic lot. Spelled out another way, U.S. market cars are the basic stuff, everything else is special.
So, ... amongst the common "everyday" cars that any Joe Blow could buy, which ones sold in the smallest numbers ?
Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2010-10-31 7:00 AM
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Location: Iowa USA | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-10-31 2:21 AM
If John Q. Public could not go down and buy a particular car, then what's the point ?
bas***d children of the mother are still Children of MA MoPar.
I suppose a lot depends on where John Q. Public lived? And how much money he had in his pockets. If you walked into your local dealership in 1958 and wanted a Ghia Limo and had the money believe me, no matter how small the dealership was you would get it.
You are viewing it from the aspect of an American but Chrysler was an international company since the 20s along with the Desoto dealership listing I have been tracking some international dealer locations. If John lived in these locations the cars may have looked different or just wore different nameplates than what you saw at your dealership but it was the reality for that buyer. Heck sometimes the steering wheel was on the other side of the car but this did not make it any less a Chrysler, Desoto, Dodge or Plymouth. The world is a much smaller place now and we can not just pretend that the rest of the world does not exist nor did it not exist when Virgil Exner was making cars for this and other markets.
Here is a partial list of overseas dealerships I have gathered from my Chrysler export magazines.
London, England
Paris, France
Guayaquil, Ecuador
Montevidio, Uruguay
Copenhagen, Denmark
Tripoli, Libya
Tokyo, Japan
Mozambique, Africa
Uganda, Africa
Brussels, Belgium
Havana, Cuba
San Juan, Puerto Rico
Rio De Janeiro, Brazil
Haiti
Bogota, Columbia
Pasay City, Philippines
Djakarta, Indonesia
Morocco, Africa
Vienna, Austria
Glasgow, Scotland
Lima, Peru
Paraguay
Nykoping, Sweden
Saigon, Indo-China
Dominican Republic
Netherlands Antilles
Ensamblaje and Caracas, Venezuela
Honolulu Hawaii (not a state till 59)
Hong Kong
Panama City, Panama
Belgrade, Yugoslavia
Rotterdam, Holland
Guatemala
Korea
Mexico
All over Australia
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Location: Big pimpin' | WTF Doc.? Um, thta is what we are talking bout here......Hello? The reason they are "special" is because they are "rare"....One can't be without the other... |
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Location: Some Island called Prince Edward | I would assume any Plodge ragtop would be pretty rare. |
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Location: Iowa USA | toddst - 2010-10-31 10:00 AM
I would assume any Plodge ragtop would be pretty rare.
Plysotos and Dosotos also The 1960-64 Desoto diplomats were Dodge based instead of Plymouth
Edited by roadkillontheweb 2010-10-31 12:26 PM
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Location: Under the X in Texas | So why is ANY year / make / model / body style RARE from new? Many different reasons.
The corporation pulled the offering before the public could even order them (Chrysler 300F Special Gran Turismo)
They were offered to the public and the public did not like what they saw and didn't buy
Management decided to limit the number available (DeSoto Adventurers most years)
The retail price was TOO HIGH and unaffordable by all but a few.
The retail price was SO LOW people thought the car wasn't any good.
The combination of body style and trim line wasn't practical.
Etc. etc. etc.
Mostly, my general opinion of why anything is rare is that NO ONE WANTED IT WHEN IT WAS AVAILABLE NEW. Certainly the manufacturer would have been more than happy to make several hundred thousand more just like it if people would have bought the first ones.
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Location: Las Vegas, NV | StillOutThere - 2010-10-31 9:32 AM
So why is ANY year / make / model / body style RARE from new? Many different reasons.
Mostly, my general opinion of why anything is rare is that NO ONE WANTED IT WHEN IT WAS AVAILABLE NEW. Certainly the manufacturer would have been more than happy to make several hundred thousand more just like it if people would have bought the first ones.
There are also cars that were plentiful when new, but are rare now because they fell out of fashion for a long time and were allowed to rot away or were sent to the crusher. When I think about rarity, I think about how many cars are out there now, not necessarily the production numbers.
Edited by spider89119 2010-10-31 1:12 PM
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Location: Plymouth Spaceport | spider89119 - 2010-10-31 1:09 PM
StillOutThere - 2010-10-31 9:32 AM
So why is ANY year / make / model / body style RARE from new? Many different reasons.
Mostly, my general opinion of why anything is rare is that NO ONE WANTED IT WHEN IT WAS AVAILABLE NEW. Certainly the manufacturer would have been more than happy to make several hundred thousand more just like it if people would have bought the first ones.
There are also cars that were plentiful when new, but are rare now because they fell out of fashion for a long time and were allowed to rot away or were sent to the crusher. When I think about rarity, I think about how many cars are out there now, not necessarily the production numbers.
You just described all of our cars! |
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Location: Plymouth Spaceport | How about the 3 special order 1958 Plymouth Fury convertibles that were illegedly built?
Ricky Nelson owned one.
Of course MoparMel has add a few to those numbers since then. |
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Location: Sept. 1958 | Didn't they make 2 60 Dodge Matador 2 Door Sedans? I thought I remember reading about them, but when I searched today I could find nothing. |
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Posts: 475
Location: Las Vegas, NV | 1960DesotoAdventurer - 2010-10-31 11:00 AM
spider89119 - 2010-10-31 1:09 PM
StillOutThere - 2010-10-31 9:32 AM
So why is ANY year / make / model / body style RARE from new? Many different reasons.
Mostly, my general opinion of why anything is rare is that NO ONE WANTED IT WHEN IT WAS AVAILABLE NEW. Certainly the manufacturer would have been more than happy to make several hundred thousand more just like it if people would have bought the first ones.
There are also cars that were plentiful when new, but are rare now because they fell out of fashion for a long time and were allowed to rot away or were sent to the crusher. When I think about rarity, I think about how many cars are out there now, not necessarily the production numbers.
You just described all of our cars!
Yes that's definitely true, but to varying degrees. For example, I would guess that there are fewer US 61 Windsor 2-door hardtops still around than there are 61 300G's, even though there were more than twice as many of the 2-door HT US Windsors produced. |
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Location: Plymouth Spaceport | I wonder how many 1960 DeSoto Adventurer 2 dr hardtops survived? You don't see them come up for sale too often. |
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Location: Belford, NJ | Agreed with Christine Lover.... supposedly there were 2 Dodge Matador / Polara 2 door sedans made. There used to be a small picture of one of them on a site somewhere but I too can't locate it. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Of 474 1958 Fireflite convertibles built, I can account for six still surviving, four being in Sweden today.
There are bound to be a few more hiding away, but given that there might be 2-3 left in car guys' hands
in the U.S., a guy will have to do a lot of car shows before he ever sees one. 
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 988
Location: Kansas City, Kansas | Somewhat related..... I had created a database nearly all the cars sold in the forwardlook years (all makes & models). I added production totals so you could compare popularity. These are not broken down all the way to body style, but is relevant nonetheless. You can also see how unloved some models were as they aged by how they declined in value compared to similar cars by other brands.
To go directly to the spreadsheet, click on the links in the first post.
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=18368&...
Edited by slimwhitman 2010-11-01 1:25 PM
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Location: Plymouth Spaceport | wow!
Great link,you sure put effort into compiling this data.
It's still hard to believe there was a time when nobody wanted a 1957-1961 Forward Look car.
Interesting that a convertible would only be valued at $35 more than a two door coupe. |
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Location: Kansas City, Kansas | 1960DesotoAdventurer - 2010-11-01 1:26 PM
Interesting that a convertible would only be valued at $35 more than a two door coupe.
...and less than a wagon. |
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Location: Plymouth Spaceport | slimwhitman - 2010-11-01 2:42 PM
1960DesotoAdventurer - 2010-11-01 1:26 PM
Interesting that a convertible would only be valued at $35 more than a two door coupe.
...and less than a wagon.
My,how times have changed! |
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Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | Are there no more than Doctor DeSoto and I have an idea of how many are left to their own model?
OK, you who owns a Chrysler 300 has a good record of all that has survived and been scrapped.
Would like to ask if anyone has a card, photo, on a Windsor 59 conv from the year 59 or 60's.
Have not found or seen anything. Would be nice to see.
(Have just advertising image with windsor New Yorker 300E conv Together)
Have just seen a Windsor 59 convertible in a movie The Gazebo of 1959 with Glenn Ford in the lead role |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 967
Location: Canada | Windsor59 - 2010-11-01 6:18 PM
Are there no more than Doctor DeSoto and I have an idea of how many are left to their own model?
OK, you who owns a Chrysler 300 has a good record of all that has survived and been scrapped.
Would like to ask if anyone has a card, photo, on a Windsor 59 conv from the year 59 or 60's.
Have not found or seen anything. Would be nice to see.
(Have just advertising image with windsor New Yorker 300E conv Together)
Have just seen a Windsor 59 convertible in a movie The Gazebo of 1959 with Glenn Ford in the lead role
I know the feeling, although not near as rare I have a 59 New Yorker 2 door hardtop. Not much info around on these. Mines Dusty Rose Poly, I can't think they made alot in this colour.... |
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Posts: 3
| does any one know how many 1960 desoto diplomat deluxes were made?? |
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Location: Canada | I dare anyone to find another Dodge Crusader '57 outside of mine...
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| Wow...Crusaders are very rare from what I've seen around here...there is one at a local wreckers, and I had a early 50's Crusader once. I think they are neat, stripper models with a very cool name I'm suprised it never resurfaced as a muscle car name later on. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | crvsir - 2010-11-02 2:52 PM
........ although not near as rare, I have a 59 New Yorker 2 door hardtop. Not much info around on
these. Mines Dusty Rose Poly, I can't think they made alot in this colour....
***********************************************
Any extreme up or down model car will sell in far fewer numbers than the middle-of-the-road cars.
Add in something weird like an unusual paint color and it is likely more than a few were built and as
we all know, fewer still survive. Especially if they were those hi-style 50's pastel colors that were SO
out of style and only drew more attention to the very passe fin car. Many late 50's cars went to the
crusher not from being worn out or wrecked, but because they were looked down upon as being ugly
and excessive very soon after being the latest rage. It is a wonder ANY of these cars survived being
scorned so badly.
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Location: Plymouth Spaceport | "Crusader" would have been a great name for Dodges version of the Fury!
It sounds tough and fits in with the Knight theme used during 57-59
I am glad Dodge got away from using that ugly ram logo during the forward look years.
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FwdLk56's Third Account
Posts: 738
Location: Midwest USA | doesn't seem to be that "rare", there were 8,413 of them built - http://www.allpar.com/world/canada.html
but yeah, rare for it to still be around, do you Canadians crush 'em just to hear glass shatter or something?
Edited by 55poly 2010-11-27 7:50 PM
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Location: Chesterfield, Virginia | How about the 59 Desoto Firesweep Sportsman 2dr. hrdt.? Only 5481 were made.  |
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Regular
Posts: 66
Location: Washington,DC | How about the 1961 Dodge Polara convertible made 512. I just bought/ found one in Hershey PA. I just finished the 1961 Dodge Phoenix convertible made 3878. I thought I would never find a polara convertible and then one shows up. I will be working on the polara soon.
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Location: Under the X in Texas | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5975637569570379341# 1960 Imperial prototype which is a sedan on the driver's side and a 4dr hardtop on the passenger side is shown just past halfway through this 6 min. video. This has to be the most rare body style of '60 Imperial ! Can you beat that?
Edited by StillOutThere 2010-11-30 8:33 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | Good Lord! We're really grasping at straws now !
I got a tip on a 58 Belvedere one and when I got there I found it had been grafted into a
camper. I suppose once we open the door to non-production cars, all bets are off ?
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Location: North Australia | Here is a rare one, but probably not desirable. This car sits in a shed in South Australia, My Sister found it in the back shed on the farm she lives on, with her Husband.
The Brother in laws Dad purchased the car new, and here it sits. I could find little detail on numbers, but around 500 odd cars seems right.
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Expert
Posts: 2289
Location: Eastern Iowa | Someone needs to remove those wiper arms before they ruin the W/shield if they'd ever get activated!!
It would be akin to taking sandpaper to the glass.
Dave S. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Oooh! ... I want a pair of those "Torque Flite" badges !!!!!
Looks like the keys are on the seat ... Let's take it out for a ride !
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FwdLk56's Third Account
Posts: 738
Location: Midwest USA |
what are the production numbers for the '61 DeSoto's? they might fall in as the rarist by "quantity"...
edit: nevermind, 3,034 DeSotos were built in '61, i wouldn't call that "rare" (esp. when you compare that to 1956 D-500's or 1956 DeSoto Adventurers)...
Edited by 55poly 2010-12-01 3:46 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1053
Location: Ny | 1958firemite, your phoenix is gorgeous. I had a blue 4 door sedan back in the day until the rear end rusted out of it. It ended up as a donor for a polara since it had rust-free fenders. Weird, considering the eyebrows are typically GONE in those cars. Speaking of that... 60 Imp, that car is in amazing condition. Whoever is going to snag up that beaut is a lucky person.
It's not technically forwardlook, but I'm just putting two words out there (since we're all grasping for straws, lol). 1955 Coronado. I'm not biased or anything. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | What are the production numbers for 55 Coronado ? I don't think I've ever looked that up !
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | Hmmm I would like a lot of that car so I can keep my 60 plym R/H/D. I have tha dash but the steering and brakes ect would be very handy. Even if it was for sale, I need to rebuild the funds and get christmas out of the way first. |
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FwdLk56's Third Account
Posts: 738
Location: Midwest USA |
i can't find any production numbers that segragate out the Coronado
i have always LOVED the front "teeth" of the '55 DeSoto's...
Edited by 55poly 2010-12-02 9:11 AM
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Location: Parts Unknown | I like the floating teeth on the 54 and 55 DeSoto as well. The 54 was a very good looking bathtub ..
..... this coming from a guy that doesn't like round cars too much. I just love the tiny fins on the chrome
light rings front and rear !!!
The 55 is beautiful ... I think about the best of the Mopar line for 55. Although the 55 CRL is pretty neat
too.  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1053
Location: Ny | There is no definitive production number since they were produced alongside the rest of the fireflites, but it is said that less than 500 were produced. I think Allpar.com numbers it around the 478-mark. Shame we couldn't get a production list from CHS and pull out all of the body style #45's. Then we'd know for sure. |
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FwdLk56's Third Account
Posts: 738
Location: Midwest USA |
what's "different" about the Coronado versus the regular ol' 'flite? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 417
Location: Bräcke,Sweden | 1958firemite - 2010-12-01 1:24 AM
How about the 1961 Dodge Polara convertible made 512. I just bought/ found one in Hershey PA. I just finished the 1961 Dodge Phoenix convertible made 3878. I thought I would never find a polara convertible and then one shows up. I will be working on the polara soon.
That´s one very beautiful Phoenix vert.Can´t wait for pics of that 61 Polara.
All 1961 Polaras had low productionnumbers, and very few of them are still around. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | 55poly - 2010-12-03 1:46 PMwhat's "different" about the Coronado versus the regular ol' 'flite?
****************************************
Special paint was limited to charcoal, turquoise, and white, in 9 combinations, special interior,
"Coronado" badging, and a fairly stout option package. They were a very plush DeSoto sedan.
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Expert
Posts: 3887
Location: Northen Virginia | 1959 Crown Imperial Limo, price $16.000 total production: 7
the pictured car was built for the Queen's tour of Canada, with a bubble-top and flagpole
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1053
Location: Ny | Now here's the $64 question: Would you consider the Coronado to be on a line of its own as the spring special, or would you subtype it as just a trim level... akin to "Sportsman".
The Coronado featured the Sportsman leather and cloth interior (aqua cloth, white leather only). Coronado was even given its own "Body Type" on the paint/trim data plate... #45. This would further identify the vehicle as a Coronado beyond the 5 available color combination's indicated by the paint code (in black, surf white, and "coronado green").
I have tons of 55 Coronado info that i was able to scrounge up with thanks to CHS and various members/fellow Coronado owners of the NDC.
This is of course not to be confused with the Plymouth Coronado (8 passenger sedan). Those are an entirely different species.
Edited by Jessica 2010-12-04 3:29 AM
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Location: Parts Unknown | Since the term "Sportsman" was meaningless beyond denoting a hardtop body style, I would not
put "Coronado" in the same class. Coronado was a special, extra fancy sub-model of the top-end
Fireflite. It was a limited production car with lots of special features. There was no specific paint
or interiors associated with a Sportsman. All it meant was a pillarless coupe or sedan.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 322
Location: Finland | 
How about this one? `57 DeSoto Diplomat 4D HT. Yes, it is HT...
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Wise Old Village Idiot
Posts: 3591
Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | Milt,,,, Sent you a PM,,, |
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Wise Old Village Idiot
Posts: 3591
Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | StillOutThere - 2010-11-30 8:32 AM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5975637569570379341# 1960 Imperial prototype which is a sedan on the driver's side and a 4dr hardtop on the passenger side is shown just past halfway through this 6 min. video. This has to be the most rare body style of '60 Imperial ! Can you beat that?
Wayne,,,,,. 1 of 1 ? |
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Location: The Mile High City | Just saw that 61 New Yorker convertible in the auction section. It said only 562 produced. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | Lancer, the 57 D501's are listed as a seperate model in the NADA books of old. Probably around 113 |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Milt, I am a strong advocate and exponent for the installation of clear plastic seat covers to protect a correct/expensive
NOS interior, but yours is the FIRST example that I've ever seen where they were put over a full-VINYL interior!!!!
I bow to your righteousness.....
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Gerry, altho the final count has not yet been confirmed by Historical Society researcher Darrell Davis, it appears
that there may have been up to 105 1957 D501's built--including pre-full-production examples which left the factory.
To date 92 D501's have been found by Mr. Davis; they were not built in sequence, and the hardtop versions carry
ordinary BDY codings, which make them tough to find.
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Location: The Mile High City | No question the 501's were (are) rare. Were all 501's Coronets? And then most were club sedans, but some were hardtops, some were convertibles, and some were sedans? I was originally trying to stay away from that area because it is such a slippery slope; when you begin factoring in engine options, you should include transmission options and one thing leads to another and it goes all C-body where every car is one of only six made that look exactly like this one.
Now the Coronado, if we knew the number, I would put in because I would consider it to be more like a separate model - somewhat like a Regal Lancer (1163). |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Let's lose all the "funny business" cars and go back the original list (kinda)
58 Adventurer convertible (82)
59 Adventurer convertible (97)
59 300E convertible (140)
58 300D convertible (191)
59 New Yorker convertible (286)
58 Fireflite Shopper (318)
58 Adventurer coupe (350)
58 Town & Country 9p wagon (428)
59 Town & Country 6p wagon (444)
58 Fireflite convertible (474)
57 300C convertible (484)
58 LeBaron sedan (501)
58 Firedome convertible (519)
58 LeBaron South Hampton (538)
59 300E coupe (550)
61 NY'er convertible (562)
59 Town & Country 9p wagon (564)
58 Fireflite Explorer (609)
58 300D coupe (618)
58 New Yorker convertible (666) |
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Expert
Posts: 1357
Location: Iowa USA | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-12-05 1:29 AM
Let's lose all the "funny business" cars and go back the original list (kinda )
You have something against the 57 Adventurer convertible (300)?? How can you deny that car belongs on the list? |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I didn't make that list. I just copied it from the beginning of the thread. By all means, add the 57 Adventurer convertible !
As if I would DENY a 57-58 full size DeSoto ! |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Wait a minute ! What about the mock-up 57 Adventurer convertible 8 door airporter where the other side is a dump truck ? ! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: Central Alberta | Rarest FL Cars by Model and Body Style:
1957 and 1958 Dodge Mayfair convertible, production #`s for Mayfairs are 1957: 6931, 1958: 3002. Those #s include all bodystyles offered as Mayfair, 2 door and 4 door sedan, 2 door and 4 door htp, convertible and Station Wagons.
Your guess is as good as mine, but there would not have been more than a few hundred convertibles been made, so they would definately be up there in the top 20. More so than a Crusader two door.
Marty |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1053
Location: Ny | It would be possible to find out how many 55 coronados were produced, but someone would have to get friendly with CHS and spend some quality time surfing the microfilm. There are only 115,000 or so Desotos to browse through for that model year.
Edited by Jessica 2010-12-05 11:03 PM
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Location: Bjorneborg, Finland | Quite low production numbers. Together 2 more than I have fingers and toes..
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1959 DeSoto Diplomat Adventurer
Production #
2-Dr Hardtop - 14
Convertible - 8
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Location: The Mile High City | I have heard of Diplomats
I have heard of Adventurers
A Diplomat Adventurer?
Is that an Adventurer-Powered Diplomat? |
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Location: The Mile High City | Ok, here is what I have learned so far -
58 Windsor convertible (2)
58 Adventurer convertible (82)
59 Adventurer convertible (97)
59 300E convertible (140)
58 300D convertible (191)
60 300F convertible (248)
59 New Yorker convertible (286)
57 Adventurer convertible (300)
58 Fireflite Shopper (318)
61 300G convertible (337)
58 Adventurer coupe (350)
58 Town & Country 9p wagon (428)
59 Town & Country 6p wagon (444)
58 Fireflite convertible (474)
57 300C convertible (484)
58 LeBaron sedan (501)
61 Polara convertible (512)
58 Firedome convertible (519)
58 LeBaron South Hampton (538)
59 300E coupe (550)
60 New Yorker convertible (556)
59 Town & Country 9p wagon (564)
61 New Yorker convertible (576)
58 Fireflite Explorer (609)
58 300D coupe (618)
58 New Yorker convertible (666)
I am happy to add in the Fury convertibles, the Matador / Polara club sedans, and the Coronados if someone can pin down the numbers. I want to know more about the Diplomat Adventurers before we throw those numbers in. Is that an engine option for the Diplomats? If so, same deal as the D-501s! As stated earlier, we all know the Ghia limousines are rare and their numbers are listed on the Imperial site, so I didn't include them here.
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Location: Bjorneborg, Finland | > A Diplomat Adventurer?
> Is that an Adventurer-Powered Diplomat?
1959 saw first and last Adventurers in the Diplomat line. It was most glamorous Diplomat ever, DeSoto's version of the Plymouth Sport Fury. Standard engine was 318 Fury V8 with Power-Pak with 361 Golden Commando optional (source: Don Butler's The Plymouth and DeSoto Story) |
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | Production of Fury convertibles is way too high to make this list. The first Fury convertbile was built in 1960. No Fury convertible was built during 1956 to 1959.
Total production of the 1960 Dodge Matador 2-door sedan came to 2.
The Coronado does not belong on this list as it was a trim package on the Fireflite and not a series. Which is why no one knows how many were built.
The 1959 DeSoto Diplomat Adventurer was a Sport Fury in Diplomat clothing, model MF2-P. A similar model appeared in the Kinsgway line - Kingsway Lancer, model ME2-P. Thanks to Don Butler we know how many MF2-P models were built. Total Plymouth production included Diplomat, Kinsway and Canadian Dodge models. Thus if you quote Diplomat, Kingsway, etc. figures you need to delete those figures from the Plymouth total. Chrysler of Canada did not offer a Dodge version of the Sport Fury. All 1959 Sport Fury models, included Diplomat and Kingsway versions, were built only in Detroit.
The 1958 Imperial LeBaron should be Southampton - one word.
Edited by Chrycoman 2010-12-06 3:47 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1357
Location: Iowa USA | When foreign production models are in the picture it becomes very fuzzy.
Plymouth bodies with Desoto and Dodge trim and Dodge bodies with Desoto trim. Convertibles and station wagons offered in the Desoto line in 1960 and 61 when no such creature was marketed here in the states etc.
Granted many people would not even like to recognize them since they do not look like what the American production market saw. If the factory (here or there) put the name on when it was new then that is what it is even if it looks different. Some of them we may never know how many were produced?
In Australia the AP3 series had 1959 Desoto style rear quarters but was still being produced in 1962 with a 1954 era Plymouth cabin. In South Africa you could get a Desoto car in 1963! It's a mess, but every single one of those oddballs or bas***d children of Chrysler corporation is still a part of the family history. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | This topic begs multiple lists.
Standard production U.S. market cars
Standard production NON-U.S. market cars (probably breaks out into yet more separate lists of different cars)
Prototypes, show cars, and mock-ups
Custom built production cars, i.e. "Ghia"
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Location: The Mile High City | Updated
60 Matador club sedan (2)
58 Windsor convertible (2)
58 Adventurer convertible (82)
59 Adventurer convertible (97)
59 300E convertible (140)
58 300D convertible (191)
60 300F convertible (248)
59 New Yorker convertible (286)
57 Adventurer convertible (300)
58 Fireflite Shopper (318)
61 300G convertible (337)
58 Adventurer coupe (350)
58 Town & Country 9p wagon (428)
59 Town & Country 6p wagon (444)
58 Fireflite convertible (474)
57 300C convertible (484)
58 LeBaron sedan (501)
61 Polara convertible (512)
58 Firedome convertible (519)
58 LeBaron Southampton (538)
59 300E coupe (550)
60 New Yorker convertible (556)
59 Town & Country 9p wagon (564)
61 New Yorker convertible (576)
58 Fireflite Explorer (609)
58 300D coupe (618)
58 New Yorker convertible (666)
So, do the 59 Diplomat Adventurer coupe (14) and convertible (8) belong on the list or are we talking about the Coronado of the Plymouth world? Maybe Doc and Lee are on to something with the separate lists. The above list looks like regular U.S. production.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2010-12-06 10:24 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | 58 Windsor convertibles belong in the Plymouth Coronado world. No John Q. Public could buy one of these.
Why are they one the list ? |
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Location: The Mile High City | Well, Doc - if anyone in the wide world of sports owns either a 58 Windsor convertible or a 60 Matador club sedan and that car is properly coded as authentic from the factory (which it certainly could be), they own the legitimate Mother of all forward look rarities and deserve all the kudos they get! I say we keep 'em. I wouldn't call them one-of-a-kinds or mock-ups because they are listed by Ma MoPar herself in the total production figures for Chrysler and Dodge.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2010-12-06 10:31 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1053
Location: Ny | I would certainly give the Coronado more credit than being just a fancy trim level. The car was given it's very own body # to be stamped on the data plates. From what I know, trim levels were not given this distinction, were they? I would say it is a good argument that the Coronado is more than "just a trim level", but then again we cannot know the production numbers as it was lumped in with all 4 door sedan fireflites produced.
I'd be interested in taking on the challenge of trying to find out the production numbers for the Coronado. I can try to contact CHS and see what sort of direction they may be able to point me. I am assuming that the only way to find out would be to sort through all of their IBM cards available on microfilm. I don't think there would be a way to track dealer orders, at Chryslers end. The information on the dealer end is likely long gone, as are the dealerships themselves. I've never tracked this sort of thing before... and I assume it takes years upon years to amass a decent portion of information. Is there anyone who has "been there" able to give me some pointers? It strikes personal interest for me since I own one. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Arvada, Colorado (NW Denver Metro Area) | Lancer Mike - 2010-10-30 9:18 PM
I am reluctant to knock the 58 Windsor convertible out - Dodge made a "mock-up" of the '59 Regal Lancer, but you never see that in 1959 Dodge production figures! Every account of 1958 Chrysler production numbers I have seen lists those two Windsors. Good point: John Q could not walk into a dealer and buy one, but something is different about them from a true mock-up one-of-a-kind! I didn't throw in the 501s or the dash ones because that opens the door for the pont-a-mousson 300Fs, the '58 EFIs, and the slope gets slipperier from there. I appreciate the production list for Ghias (they are true rarities). There must be some more rare wagons or some rare '56s or '55s in there?
58 Windsor convertible (2)
58 Adventurer convertible (82)
59 Adventurer convertible (97)
59 300E convertible (140)
58 300D convertible (191)
60 300F convertible (248)
59 New Yorker convertible (286)
57 Adventurer convertible (300)
58 Fireflite Shopper (318)
61 300G convertible (337)
58 Adventurer coupe (350)
58 Town & Country 9p wagon (428)
59 Town & Country 6p wagon (444)
58 Fireflite convertible (474)
57 300C convertible (484)
58 LeBaron sedan (501)
58 Firedome convertible (519)
58 LeBaron South Hampton (538)
59 300E coupe (550)
60 New Yorker convertible (556)
59 Town & Country 9p wagon (564)
61 New Yorker convertible (576)
58 Fireflite Explorer (609)
58 300D coupe (618)
58 New Yorker convertible (666)
Mike, of course I could not walk into a dealership and buy one since I was born in 55 I would be way to young.....errrr you mean John Q. "Public" never mind then.....
I think my 59 Plymouth Belvedere convertibles had over 3000 to 3500 made so that was a huge volume of converts. Low trim level, but was popular for the masses!
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Location: Parts Unknown | Lancer Mike - 2010-12-07 7:27 PM
Well, Doc - if anyone in the wide world of sports owns either a 58 Windsor convertible or a 60 Matador club sedan and that car is properly coded as authentic from the factory (which it certainly could be), they own the legitimate Mother of all forward look rarities and deserve all the kudos they get! I say we keep 'em. I wouldn't call them one-of-a-kinds or mock-ups because they are listed by Ma MoPar herself in the total production figures for Chrysler and Dodge.
*****************************************************
I would reserve such a discovery (and appropriate credit) when those cars are indeed discovered. Until then, they are just like all the other show cars and mock-ups that no one has ever seen or heard of. We only see a statistic. Has anyone ever seen one on the street since those records were made ?
It all sounds great, but I think we are likely chasing ghosts, and it not, then they are VERY unique NON-production cars.
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | roadkillontheweb - 2010-12-06 7:36 PM
When foreign production models are in the picture it becomes very fuzzy.
Plymouth bodies with Desoto and Dodge trim and Dodge bodies with Desoto trim. Convertibles and station wagons offered in the Desoto line in 1960 and 61 when no such creature was marketed here in the states etc.
Granted many people would not even like to recognize them since they do not look like what the American production market saw. If the factory (here or there) put the name on when it was new then that is what it is even if it looks different. Some of them we may never know how many were produced?
In Australia the AP3 series had 1959 Desoto style rear quarters but was still being produced in 1962 with a 1954 era Plymouth cabin. In South Africa you could get a Desoto car in 1963! It's a mess, but every single one of those oddballs or bas***d children of Chrysler corporation is still a part of the family history.
The export Diplomat and Kingsway models were American as they were built in Detroit (or Windsor). Models assembled in Great Britain, Belgium, Switzerland, South Africa, etc. used CKD units from Detroit with American serial numbers. The Canadian plant shipped to Australia, New Zealand and other Commonwealth nations.
The South Africa "DeSotos" were Dodge models imported from Detroit and rebadged. Their production numbers are included in American Dodge figures.
The Australian situation was a little different in that they used imported chassis before 1957 and had bodies built locally. The imported chassis were included in American or Canadian production numbers and, again, had U.S. or Canadian serial numbers. The Chrysler Royal of Australia was the first Chrysler Corporation car built outside of Canada and the U.S. not based on a car being built in Detroit or Windsor. Chassis and bodies were built in Australia with engines from either Windsor or Kew (Britain).
Not many know that Dodge Kingsway and DeSoto Diplomat models were sold in Hawaii prior to 1959, when Hawaii, the American territory, became Hawaii, the American state. It was considered an export market by American firms.
All 1960-61 DeSoto Diplomat production figures were included with Dodge Dart figures while earlier models are included with Plymouth. American-built
1951-59 Dodge Kingsway production figures are included with Plymouth while 1935 to 1950 models had their own model numbers and were counted separately.
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Location: The Mile High City | Jessica - 2010-12-06 9:24 PM
I would certainly give the Coronado more credit than being just a fancy trim level. The car was given it's very own body # to be stamped on the data plates.
Jessica, if it is true that they had their own body number, then they definitely deserve to be on the list (assuming total production is under well under 1,000). If 58 Regals were rarer, I would certainly put them on the list and they only had a PNT identifier on the cowl tag!
Someone wrote that AllPar has a estimate on 55 Coronados, but I didn't put it in the revised list because the number was estimated. You might want to contact AllPar so you are not reinventing the wheel. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Didn't Butler or one of the other oldtime book authors quote a production figure for Coronados ?
My brain is fading .......  |
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | jtw - 2010-11-26 11:10 PM
does any one know how many 1960 desoto diplomat deluxes were made??
Production figures for the Dart-based 1960-61 Diplomat are not known. The production figures we have for 1930-1977 Plymouths and 1957-59 Diplomats was due to the work of the late Don Butler. He also dug up the production figures for the 1930-1961 DeSotos and 1930-1955 Dodges, as published by a number of authors. Contrary to public belief, Chrysler Corporation at no time released production breakdowns to the public. All that we know today has been the result of the research of people like Don Butler. (And it is breakdown and not breakout. Only prisoners and pimples breakout.)
And that is why The Dodge Story has production figures up to 1955. That is as far as Don Butler got when the book went to the publishers.
Still, would like to get my hands on a copy of an internal publication in 1962 giving production figures by body style for U.S. and Canada. No idea how far back it goes. We have seen parts of it on this forum giving production figures for 1957-58 DeSotos and 1957-60 Dodges.
Edited by Chrycoman 2010-12-07 11:27 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1053
Location: Ny | Mike, I was the person who mentioned the production estimate on allpar. I was wrong in that, however. Allpar does not list a production estimate (at least on the Coronado page I just pulled up). I had tried to recall where I saw it listed online. An estimated production number was mentioned on the HowStuffWorks, site, however... 500. I am trying to remember where I had read the number "478". It may have been in discussion here on this forum back when I was originally contemplating the purchase of the vehicle (over a year and a half ago).
I am able to attach some information regarding the body # tag, though. Here, you will see some division paperwork sent to the dealer regarding the arrival of the Coronado. This bulletin is dated for Feb 14, 1955. I've also attached a copy of my CHS IBM card info printed off to reveal the body # indicated on the build sheet.
I have contacted the lady who helped me obtain my IBM card at CHS via email. I am still awaiting a reply to see if she might be able to help me or point me in the right direction. Hopefully she is still employed there!
Also, here is the link for the HowStuffWorks site:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1955-desoto-fireflite-coronado.htm
Edited by Jessica 2010-12-07 11:49 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | This one CLEARLY belongs on the list if some of these others are included !
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=33948&...
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1053
Location: Ny | I heard back from Danielle at CHS today. Here is what she had to say:
Hello Jessica,
Unfortunately, our production figures are only broken down by body style. The only figures I could give you for the 1955 DeSoto FireFlite is:
Special Club Coupe – 10,214
6 Passenger Convertible Coupe – 756
4 Door Sedan – 26,195
The figures are not broken down any further than that and nothing more exists within the company. I am sorry I could not assist you further with your request. If you have any questions, please let me know.
Thank you.
I am unsure if the public has access to their microfilm files (I replied asking.. long shot, but worth asking). It would take a few days of scrolling through microfilm and 26K cars to perform a manual count. It could be done (pending they have record of all 55 4 door sedan IBM cards), though.
*Edit:
Danielle responded quickly to my reply this afternoon. Their archives are closed to the public. She has also told me that they are "understaffed, and would not be sure when they could take on something of that nature". Maybe I could recruit Jay Leno to help since he has a Coronado. Perhaps they would be more willing to take a peek!
Edited by Jessica 2010-12-08 1:12 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Well, that bit of correspondence gives us a new end to the list:
60 Matador club sedan (2)
58 Windsor convertible (2)
58 Adventurer convertible (82)
59 Adventurer convertible (97)
59 300E convertible (140)
58 300D convertible (191)
60 300F convertible (248)
59 New Yorker convertible (286)
57 Adventurer convertible (300)
58 Fireflite Shopper (318)
61 300G convertible (337)
58 Adventurer coupe (350)
58 Town & Country 9p wagon (428)
59 Town & Country 6p wagon (444)
58 Fireflite convertible (474)
57 300C convertible (484)
58 LeBaron sedan (501)
61 Polara convertible (512)
58 Firedome convertible (519)
58 LeBaron Southampton (538)
59 300E coupe (550)
60 New Yorker convertible (556)
59 Town & Country 9p wagon (564)
61 New Yorker convertible (576)
58 Fireflite Explorer (609)
58 300D coupe (618)
58 New Yorker convertible (666)
55 Fireflite convertible (756)
Good idea about Jay Leno - he can send about 15 Tonight Show staffers to pour through the files! We would know the answer in about two days! |
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Location: The Mile High City | Oh and Doc, among the roughly 183,285,009 inhabitants of the United States in 1958 - the availibility of owning anything between a 58 Matador club sedan or a 1959 Chrysler 300E convertible was exactly the same: less than one in a million! Maybe we should throw 'em all off the list as sideshow freaks, and pretend they didn't exist!
In fact, in the 60's a manufacturer had to make at least 500 units to even be considered a production car that could race. By that definition, everything above a 58 LeBaron sedan is a one-of-a-kind concept knock-off!
Edited by Lancer Mike 2010-12-08 3:28 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | OK, .... I'll bite. What do records show ever happened to these 60 Matadors and 58 Windsors ?
Were they sold to the public ? Where did they sell ? Did they ever actually turn a wheel on the
American road ? Did they go to Switzerland as knock-downs ? Were they just accounting errors
and never really built ? Do photographs exist of them ?
I guess my criteria for being a real car to qualify as a "rare" car is that any Joe Blow could have
walked in and driven one off the lot. Everything else falls into "special status" and is that whole
apples / oranges deal. |
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Location: Vancouver, BC | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-12-08 9:59 PM
OK, .... I'll bite. What do records show ever happened to these 60 Matadors and 58 Windsors ?
Were they sold to the public ? Where did they sell ? Did they ever actually turn a wheel on the
American road ? Did they go to Switzerland as knock-downs ? Were they just accounting errors
and never really built ? Do photographs exist of them ?
I guess my criteria for being a real car to qualify as a "rare" car is that any Joe Blow could have
walked in and driven one off the lot. Everything else falls into "special status" and is that whole
apples / oranges deal.
Not sure about the Windsor convertibles, but the 1960 Matador 2-door sedans were supposedly built for some police department. By rights, as these were not production vehicles but specially built vehicles, they really should not be on a list of the rare production vehicles. These were not on the list of vehicles offered to the public, no one could have the local Mopar dealer order one, no photos of them have come to light, and until the production by body style lists were compiled, no one knew they existed. They appear on these lists as they had the same model numbers along with serial numbers within the same sequences as the other vehicles on the list and not some special number.
Attached is another one-off, undoubtedly done before the styling was finalized. Or one of the company's air brush experts.
 (1958 chrysler windsor mockup (Medium).jpg)
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1958 chrysler windsor mockup (Medium).jpg (37KB - 1633 downloads)
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Location: Parts Unknown | Perzackly !
Thanks, Bill. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | Dod we ask mabout the 57, 58, & 59 Dodge Power Giant sweptside pu? |
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Location: The Mile High City | Ok, I sent Danielle an e-mail about the '58 Winsor convertibles. Doc, this is probably going to get me banned down at Chrysler Historical - so I hope your are happy! Let's see what she says.
I heard that Elmer Skuggins purchased one of them brand-new from a dealer in Ipswitch, New York. Several months later, he attempted to jump it over the Grand Canyon. The car was nearly totalled. Twenty three years later, it turned up in a storage building in Pewaukee, Wisconsin. I think it is in Europe now. I don't know anything about the other one!
Edited by Lancer Mike 2010-12-10 2:27 PM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Ny | I hope she will be able to offer you more help than I, Mike.
On a side note, I cannot find the page where I read that Jay Leno owned a Coronado. Perhaps it was false information. I did look up his website, www.jaylenosgarage.com, and a 55 Coronado is not amongst the list. Perhaps at one time he did have one, but sold it? Who knows. Jay does represent the FWLK fairly well, however, with a gorgeous 56 Chrysler Imperial. He also has a 54 Coronet Suburban. |
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | I have a photo of the 60 Matador 2 door sedan, will post later at home. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Bill, what is Non-Stock about the 58 Windsor Sedan mock up above? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Mike, you'd better add the 102 1957 D501's to the list; the 1956 D-500-1's were something (way-) less than 100,
but since their actual production number is not (yet) known, they should be correctly inserted next-lower than the 102
D501's.
But, since you're breaking-out the verts, you can further lower the 501's production to show 23 D501 convertibles produced
and 10 hardtop 501's and 69 2-dr sedan 501's being built.
Edited by d500neil 2010-12-10 4:24 PM
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Location: Vancouver, BC | imopar380 - 2010-12-10 3:57 PM
Bill, what is Non-Stock about the 58 Windsor Sedan mock up above?
The headlamps. All production 1958 Chrysler-built cars had quads, not duals.
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Location: The Mile High City | d500neil - 2010-12-10 2:23 PM
Mike, you'd better add the 102 1957 D501's to the list; the 1956 D-500-1's were something (way-) less than 100,
but since their actual production number is not (yet) known, they should be correctly inserted next-lower than the 102
D501's.
But, since you're breaking-out the verts, you can further lower the 501's production to show 23 D501 convertibles produced
and 10 hardtop 501's and 69 2-dr sedan 501's being built.
I am by no means the keeper of the list, just the asker of the question. As I noted earlier, I am hesitant to add the 501's because it seems like more of an engine option, rather than strictly model and body style (which was the question). However, you make a good case. IF you considered the 501 as a MODEL, it makes sense to add it on....AND you have numbers! Someone did point out that at sometime in the past, someone did consider the 501 as a model.
As a cautionary note, this makes me think of '60 Sonoramic club sedans or '59 D-500 convertibles - but we don't have numbers for those! And they cross model lines where the '57 D501 does not. |
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Location: Vancouver, BC | Lancer Mike - 2010-12-10 10:51 PM
d500neil - 2010-12-10 2:23 PM
Mike, you'd better add the 102 1957 D501's to the list; the 1956 D-500-1's were something (way-) less than 100,
but since their actual production number is not (yet) known, they should be correctly inserted next-lower than the 102
D501's.
But, since you're breaking-out the verts, you can further lower the 501's production to show 23 D501 convertibles produced
and 10 hardtop 501's and 69 2-dr sedan 501's being built.
I am by no means the keeper of the list, just the asker of the question. As I noted earlier, I am hesitant to add the 501's because it seems like more of an engine option, rather than strictly model and body style (which was the question ). However, you make a good case. IF you considered the 501 as a MODEL, it makes sense to add it on....AND you have numbers! Someone did point out that at sometime in the past, someone did consider the 501 as a model.
As a cautionary note, this makes me think of '60 Sonoramic club sedans or '59 D-500 convertibles - but we don't have numbers for those! And they cross model lines where the '57 D501 does not.
The D-500, D-501, Sonoramic, etc. were packages with the engine as the focal point. In the case of the D-500, you can find them on Coronet, Royal and Custom Royal models while the Sonoramic was available on all Plymouths. The cars on the list each have a unique model number. The D-500, D-501 and Sonoramic equipped vehicles do not.
The 1959 DeSoto Fireflite 2-door hardtop was model MS3-H 23, while the Adventurer 2-door hardtop was MS3-S 23. A 1959 Dodge Custom Royal with the base 361 V8 was model MD3-H 23 while a Custom Royal with the D-500 package (DeSoto Fireflite engine, basically) was still MD3-H 23. And that was how Chrysler counted production - by model number.
And that is to what the list should be sticking - production by model number. The D-500, D-501, etc. were all options, just like power steering, automatic transmissions, and whitewall tires. If someone wants to make a list how many cars were built by engine option, in particular hi-perf engines, fine. But this one should stick to production by model number (make, series and body style).
The model number information was entered on the bottom row of the body data tag on U.S. models and the top row on Canadian models, but not information on what was under the hood. That information was recorded in the options area of the American body data tag and not at all on the Canadian.
In the case of the D-501, is was not a model. It's fine that 10 D-501 hardtops were built, but of that 10 how many were Coronet, how many Royal and how many Custom Royal? And that is the sign of an option. The 1957 Dodge Coronet was model D66, the Royal was D67-2 and the Custom Royal was D67-3. We know how many hardtops were built in each series, and we know those totals include those built with the D-501 engine option. The D-500 and D-501 were not models, but engine packages/options.
Just my 2 cents Canadian (1.99 cents US).
Edited by Chrycoman 2010-12-10 11:54 PM
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Chrycoman - 2010-12-10 5:21 PM
imopar380 - 2010-12-10 3:57 PM
Bill, what is Non-Stock about the 58 Windsor Sedan mock up above?
The headlamps. All production 1958 Chrysler-built cars had quads, not duals.
Of course - I guess I was thinking of the 57 DeSoto Firesweeps with the single headlamps in the Dodge type front fenders. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Here's the 1960 Matador 2 door Sedan photo.
 (matador 2 door sedan.jpg)
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matador 2 door sedan.jpg (19KB - 326 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Next Lowest 1960 Dodge production would be the " Non-Cataloged" 1960 Dart Phoenix Wagon, just 320 were built for the Canadian Market only. They carried Matador / Polara side trim and tail lights, but had a Dart grille, and a Plymouth dash board and interior. They took the place of the Matador Wagon in Canada which was not built or sold in Canada. The reason that they used Matador / Polara body side mouldings was the simple fact that the Phoenix body side mouldings would not fit above the HIGHER rear fender openings used on all wagons, whether they were Dart or Polara/ Matador wagons. The Dart non-wagons used lower rear fender openings than the wagons. I know of only one of these that survives today, and is presently somewhere in Europe. There could possibly be others.... maybe...
Being a Wagon, it was built in the USA for sale in Canada... a very strange hybrid car indeed. The Windsor plant did not build wagons or convertibles in those years.
Edited by imopar380 2010-12-11 1:41 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | The June 1964 NADA book shows the D501 as a model. It was more than an engine option. It is as serious a contender as differentiating 6 pas wagons from 9 pass wagons. I'm with Neil D500, the exclusion of a truly rare Dodge makes the accured list hohum!
Edited by horace 2010-12-11 2:39 AM
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Location: Vancouver, BC | imopar380 - 2010-12-11 1:24 AM
Next Lowest 1960 Dodge production would be the " Non-Cataloged" 1960 Dart Phoenix Wagon, just 320 were built for the Canadian Market only. They carried Matador / Polara side trim and tail lights, but had a Dart grille, and a Plymouth dash board and interior. They took the place of the Matador Wagon in Canada which was not built or sold in Canada. The reason that they used Matador / Polara body side mouldings was the simple fact that the Phoenix body side mouldings would not fit above the HIGHER rear fender openings used on all wagons, whether they were Dart or Polara/ Matador wagons. The Dart non-wagons used lower rear fender openings than the wagons. I know of only one of these that survives today, and is presently somewhere in Europe. There could possibly be others.... maybe...
Being a Wagon, it was built in the USA for sale in Canada... a very strange hybrid car indeed. The Windsor plant did not build wagons or convertibles in those years.
Actually, the Windsor plant did build wagons, but only Plymouth and Plymouth-based models from 1949. Chrysler, DeSoto and US-style Dodge wagons were all imported. C-body Plymouth and Dodge wagons were built in Canada until 1969 or 1970, and they also built Valiant wagons 1960-65 but not 1966.
The reason for the Phoenix Sport Suburban is that the Canadian Dodge mirrored the Plymouth as far as Canadian-built models go. As Plymouth had a Sport Suburban in 1960, so did the Dart. Neither offered a Custom Suburban, though. The 1960 Sport Suburbans were offered with slant six or 313 V8 engines in both 2-seat and 3-seat versions. As stated, sales were very low and thus from 1961 through 1965 Plymouth and Dodge offered Suburban and Custom Suburban wagons and no Sport Suburban. The "Sport Suburban" nameplates used on the 1960 Dart were from the 1959 Plymouth/Dodge.
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | How come no '55 or '56's mentioned? How many '55 Chrysler C300's were made. What about the 300B, weren't both of these production cars? Or did Mopar make tons of '55 and '56 Mopars? |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I think production of both exceeded 1000 units.
How you doing, Jay ? |
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Location: The Mile High City | We recently added the 55 Fireflite convertible at 756!
I had wondered about the '55s and '56s too. There must be some other model and bodystyle combinations that were under 1,000 units made.
Does anyone know of any? |
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Location: Parts Unknown | 55 and 56 were good sales years for Mother Mopar. The 56 ADV came in at 996. The related
Pace Car ragtop was very limited production, but the number escapes me and I really don't know
if it had a special designation to qualify. |
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-12-14 11:42 AM I think production of both exceeded 1000 units. How you doing, Jay ? Well, I didn't know those years had such good production numbers. I would have thought there weren't that many C300's sold, but I guess there was, wow, guess they were doing good. Those years do happen to be the best FL's anyway! :-) Am I a little biased? Or just an a$$? Doc, been okay, but have to go into the neuro docs tomorrow. Extreme pain under right shoulder blade and down right and left arms. Last time this happen they had to fuse two vertebraes and dig 3 pieces of disc material out of my spinal cord. I'm hoping they didn't leave a piece in and now its lodge itself against a nerve, bad snap in my neck the other morning. Its possible there may be something wrong with the plate or the plate screws in my neck, we'll see. Not even my Methadone touches the pain, its like a sword pushed in under your shoulder blade down your arm and out your fingertips. When its really bad and my son is home, I go out to the garage to scream, that's how painful it can get. Unfortunately, tomorrow's the soonest I could get in. But the family's fine, we just bought a trampoline for my son. And I just got our new Pertronix billet plug-n-play distributor, coil, and awaiting the plug wires, and Tuff Stuff high torque mini-starter. I like early presents! :-)
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Location: The Mile High City | Well, I did get the following message from Danielle at Chrysler regarding the 58 Windsor convertibles. No new information, though.
Hello Mike, Unfortunately, we do not have any records of where vehicles are after they were built. Therefore, we are unsure of where the (2) 1958 Windsor convertibles are as of today or what happened to them after they left the factory. We would need serial numbers for them to look up build records to see what dealerships they went to after the build. Also, that information can only be given to the owners of the vehicles. I am sorry I could not assist you further. If you have any questions, please let me know. |
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Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | imopar380 - 2010-12-10 10:24 PM
Next Lowest 1960 Dodge production would be the " Non-Cataloged" 1960 Dart Phoenix Wagon, just 320 were built for the Canadian Market only. They carried Matador / Polara side trim and tail lights, but had a Dart grille, and a Plymouth dash board and interior. They took the place of the Matador Wagon in Canada which was not built or sold in Canada. The reason that they used Matador / Polara body side mouldings was the simple fact that the Phoenix body side mouldings would not fit above the HIGHER rear fender openings used on all wagons, whether they were Dart or Polara/ Matador wagons. The Dart non-wagons used lower rear fender openings than the wagons. I know of only one of these that survives today, and is presently somewhere in Europe. There could possibly be others.... maybe...
Being a Wagon, it was built in the USA for sale in Canada... a very strange hybrid car indeed. The Windsor plant did not build wagons or convertibles in those years.
I found the pics of the one "Canadian Only" Phoenix Wagon I know about.
Edited by imopar380 2010-12-15 7:17 PM
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | That's a neat looking wagon. |
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Location: The Mile High City | So we have a few new ones 60 Matador club sedan (2)
58 Windsor convertible (2)
58 Adventurer convertible (82)
59 Adventurer convertible (97)
59 300E convertible (140)
58 300D convertible (191)
60 300F convertible (248)
59 New Yorker convertible (286)
57 Adventurer convertible (300)
58 Fireflite Shopper (318) 60 Phoenix wagon (320)
61 300G convertible (337)
58 Adventurer coupe (350)
58 Town & Country 9p wagon (428)
59 Town & Country 6p wagon (444)
58 Fireflite convertible (474)
57 300C convertible (484)
58 LeBaron sedan (501)
61 Polara convertible (512)
58 Firedome convertible (519)
58 LeBaron Southampton (538)
59 300E coupe (550)
60 New Yorker convertible (556)
59 Town & Country 9p wagon (564)
61 New Yorker convertible (576)
58 Fireflite Explorer (609)
58 300D coupe (618)
58 New Yorker convertible (666)
55 Fireflite convertible (756)
56 Adventurer coupe (996) |
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Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | Lancer Mike - 2010-12-15 11:47 PM
So we have a few new ones 60 Matador club sedan (2)
58 Windsor convertible (2)
58 Adventurer convertible (82)
59 Adventurer convertible (97)
59 300E convertible (140)
58 300D convertible (191)
60 300F convertible (248)
59 New Yorker convertible (286)
57 Adventurer convertible (300)
58 Fireflite Shopper (318) 60 Phoenix wagon (320)
61 300G convertible (337)
58 Adventurer coupe (350)
58 Town & Country 9p wagon (428)
59 Town & Country 6p wagon (444)
58 Fireflite convertible (474)
57 300C convertible (484)
58 LeBaron sedan (501)
61 Polara convertible (512)
58 Firedome convertible (519)
58 LeBaron Southampton (538)
59 300E coupe (550)
60 New Yorker convertible (556)
59 Town & Country 9p wagon (564)
61 New Yorker convertible (576)
58 Fireflite Explorer (609)
58 300D coupe (618)
58 New Yorker convertible (666)
55 Fireflite convertible (756)
56 Adventurer coupe (996)
59 Windsor convertible (961)
Edited by Windsor59 2010-12-16 6:42 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | 60 Matador club sedan (2)
58 Windsor convertible (2)
58 Adventurer convertible (82)
59 Adventurer convertible (97)
59 300E convertible (140)
58 300D convertible (191)
60 300F convertible (248)
59 New Yorker convertible (286)
57 Adventurer convertible (300)
58 Fireflite Shopper (318)
60 Phoenix wagon (320)
61 300G convertible (337)
58 Adventurer coupe (350)
58 Town & Country 9p wagon (428)
59 Town & Country 6p wagon (444)
58 Fireflite convertible (474)
57 300C convertible (484)
58 LeBaron sedan (501)
61 Polara convertible (512)
58 Firedome convertible (519)
58 LeBaron Southampton (538)
59 300E coupe (550)
60 New Yorker convertible (556)
59 Town & Country 9p wagon (564)
61 New Yorker convertible (576)
58 Fireflite Explorer (609)
58 300D coupe (618)
58 New Yorker convertible (666)
55 Fireflite convertible (756)
59 Windsor convertible (961)
56 Adventurer coupe (996)
There must be several cars still missing from this list - particularly between production totals of 667 and 999. Any additions from the experts? At least all model years appear to be represented now...but not all makes.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The 1957 Dodge D501's were ABSOLUTELY a separate, limited production, purpose-built, car model, which
were ALSO sold to the general public (after Dodge forsook its 1957 NASCAR racing ambitions, but did abide
by its decision to build at least 100 of them).
In addition to having a unique model designation and badging (D501), and/or D-500-1 (in-house), they have unique BDY codes to identify them (something that the 1956 D500 race cars did not have), and the totality of their heavy duty/race mechanical equipment and features were shared with NO other MoPar cars; their engines were absolutely unique, too, to the D501's.
Their inclusion should be broken-out into hardtops (10), 2-dr sedans (69) and convertibles (23) = 102 ; if you are going to split-hairs (hares?), to recognize Matador 2-dr sedans!
Edited by d500neil 2010-12-28 4:42 PM
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Location: Vancouver, BC | Lancer Mike - 2010-10-30 11:18 PM
I am reluctant to knock the 58 Windsor convertible out - Dodge made a "mock-up" of the '59 Regal Lancer, but you never see that in 1959 Dodge production figures! Every account of 1958 Chrysler production numbers I have seen lists those two Windsors. Good point: John Q could not walk into a dealer and buy one, but something is different about them from a true mock-up one-of-a-kind! I didn't throw in the 501s or the dash ones because that opens the door for the pont-a-mousson 300Fs, the '58 EFIs, and the slope gets slipperier from there. I appreciate the production list for Ghias (they are true rarities). There must be some more rare wagons or some rare '56s or '55s in there?
The reason the 1959 Dodge Regal Lancer is not in Dodge's production figures is due to the fact it was not produced. You have it right - "mock-up". The two door hardtop Chrysler used for the mock-up was either a production Custom Royal, one of the pre-production prototypes, or one of the styling mock-ups fabricated to show what the 1959 Dodges would look like. Depends upon how long they kept the latter two sources.
I went through all the production figures I have for 1955 to 1961 Chrysler Corporation cars and produced the attached list of models and body styles with production totals under 1,000. A few notes :
1) 1955 Imperial convertible, 1958 Windsor convertibles and 1960 Matador 2-door sedans are not in the main list as they were not true production vehicles. All were special models for some purpose with the 1955 Imperial convertible actually being New Yorker with an Imperial front clip and the rear fenders modified to take the Imperial taillights, etc.
2) The 1955 D54-4 Mayfair 6 models are shown but I do not have production figures for them. The Plymouth equivalent models, P26-4, are included as I have figures for them.
3) Canadian-built "Plodge" figures for 1955-56 were kept separate from Plymouth but I do not have them. American-built "Plodges, Canadian-built 1957-59 "Plodges", and 1955-1959 DeSoto Diplomat figures are all included with Plymouth, and thus unknown.
4) 1960-1961 DeSoto Diplomat models were included with Dodge Dart and thus unknown.
5) All foreign-built Mopar cars, except the Australian 1957-63 Chrysler Royal, were based on North American CKD units, and included with North American production records. Thus such vehicles as the Dodge Phoenix (Australia), 1962 DeSoto Diplomat (South Africa) and 1963 DeSoto Rebel (Soouth Africa) are all included in the North American production figures for the models they were based on.
6) Imperial Ghia limousines are not included as they were based on production 2-door hardtops or 4-door sedans. The 1955-56 Crown Imperials are included as they were built in Detroit and shared the front cowl, clip and front doors with the 1955 Imperial Custom 4-door sedan with the remainder of the body produced in Detroit. I suspect production of this body style would have been greater had New York City not changed their taxi regulations thus eliminating the need for a long wheelbase body. The 1937-1954 DeSoto taxi and Crown Imperial shared the same body and would have in 1955 had the regulations not changed. When Chrysler first released the beginning serial numbers for 1955, the LWB DeSoto taxi was in that list.
DeSoto did attempt to get back in the taxi business in 1957 with the Firesweep 6 Taxi. The model was built at Hamtramck with production beginning in January. Which is why Dodge's 230-cid six had the engine prefix change from D72 to KDS6 at engine number 9601 on January 10, 1957. The Firesweep 6 had its own serial number sequence and show 139 built. DeSoto tried again in 1958 with serial number prefix LS1-T but I have no idea how many were built.
I had the list attached as a PDF file, but I could access more than just my file when I first posted it, so I deleted the post. I will be redoing the list
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Location: Vancouver, BC | 1955 PLYMOUTH - P26-4 : Belvedere 6 4-door wagon - 21
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 51
1961 DART - RD3/4-L : Seneca 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 68
1961 PLYMOUTH - RP1/2-L : Savoy 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 74
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 82
1955 PLYMOUTH - P26-4 : Belvedere 6 2-door hardtop - 93
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 97
1955 PLYMOUTH - P26-4 : Belvedere 6 2-door sedan - 100
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 122
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door limousine - 127
1957 DeSOTO - S27 : Firesweep 6 Taxi 4-door sedan - 139
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door convertible - 140
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door limousine - 175
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door convertible - 191
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 198
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-S : 300-F 2-door convertible - 248
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 271
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 283
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 286
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 299
1957 DeSOTO - S26A : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 300
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 318
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : 300-G 2-door convertible - 337
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 428
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 429
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 433
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 444
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 474
1957 DeSOTO - C76 : 300-C 2-door convertible - 484
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 501
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 510
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 2-door convertible - 512
1958 DeSOTO - LS2-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 519
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 538
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door hardtop 550
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible 555
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 556
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 564
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 576
1959 DeSOTO - MS2-L : Firesweep V8 2-door convertible - 596
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 602
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 609
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door hardtop - 618
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 618
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 622
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 624
1955 DeSOTO - S22 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 625
1956 DeSOTO - S23 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 646
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 666
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 671
1958 IMPERIAL - LY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 675
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 676
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 692
1958 DeSOTO - LS1-L : Firesweep V8 2-door convertible - 700
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 751
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 760
1955 DeSOTO - S21 : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 775
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 775
1955 PLYMOUTH - P26-4 : Belvedere 6 4-door sedan - 786
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 791
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 837
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 862
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-L : Custom 2-door hardtop - 889
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 908
1957 IMPERIAL - IM1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 911
1961 DeSOTO - RS1-M : ---- 2-door hardtop - 911
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 934
1955 CHRYSLER - C68 : New Yorker DeLuxe 2-door convertible - 946
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 961
1960 CHRYSLER- PC3-S : 300-F 2-door hardtop - 964
1959 DODGE - MD3-H : Custom Royal 2-door convertible - 984
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 992
1956 DeSOTO - S24 : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 996
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 999
1955 IMPERIAL - C69 : Custom 2-door convertible - 1
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 2
1960 DODGE - PD1-L : Matador 2-door sedan - 2
1955 DODGE - D54-4 : Mayfair 6 2-door sedan - ??
1955 DODGE - D54-4 : Mayfair 6 4-door sedan - ??
1955 DODGE - D54-4 : Mayfair 6 2-door hardtop - ??
1955 DODGE - D54-4 : Mayfair 6 4-door wagon - ??
1958 DeSOTO - LS1-T : Firesweep 6 Taxi 4-door sedan - ??
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Location: The Mile High City | Ahhhh, now that's more like it! Thank you, Bill! Who would have guessed that a bread-and-butter Plymouth tops the list? However, I was am still reluctant to factor engines into the equation. I am aware that Chrysler lists engine types in its accounts of model production (i.e. 1958 Coronet Six two door hardtops 711ish - which I do not see on the list). That might lend some creedence to Neil's contention about the 501s.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2010-12-28 6:30 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Neil AIN'T got no "contention"...facts is FACTS.
The 1957 Coronet D501 is a true separate car model.
Now, whether you want to break-down its body types, between verts, hardtops, and 2-dr sedans, depends upon your accounting of them.
Since you are listing individual Matador sedans, and wagon-models, then the 501's should be given the courtesy of breaking down their body-types, too, above, as they are accounted-for by Darrell Davis' Historical Society research.
Edited by d500neil 2010-12-28 8:44 PM
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FwdLk56's Third Account
Posts: 738
Location: Midwest USA |
what about jess's '55 coronado
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | This survey concerns the numbers-built; not the numbers-surviving.
Lotsa 1-of-1's (still surviving) !
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | REmember folks NADA( North American Dealer Association) listed the 501's as a seperate model in their pricing guide. Now, get in the game add it to the rare model list. It was not just an engine option. Thank you |
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Veteran
Posts: 119
| I have used the info for years contained in the "Red Book, National Used Car Market Reports," and have them going back to 1926.
Look at the bottom of page 51 and you'll see the D501 listed as a Model (D501), with a breakout of Motor Numbers, and two body styles;
don't know why the 2drht is absent. The D501 listing continues at the top of page 52 with its unique engine specs.
Throughout the '56-'58 Dodge listing of this Sept., 1960 issue, you'll see the D500 referred to as an engine option, to be considered like
power steering, auto trans, etc. Car companies sent this data to Red Book, NADA, Kelley, etc., for use by dealers, law enforcement,
insurance companies and more, and that data is generally irrefutable. Taking Horace's NADA listing a step further, if Dodge listed the D501
with a Model designation in these period publications, then it's more than a mere engine option; it's a separate model.
Note on the right of the D501 listing it states, "Began Mar, 1957" and all other Models, "Began Oct, 1956."
TG
Edited by Highball57 2010-12-28 11:52 PM
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57 58 Dodge.jpg (191KB - 349 downloads)
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Location: The Mile High City | Riddle me this, Batman: were those 102 1957 501 Coronets taken out of the "Coronet" production totals or added-on to the Coronet production totals??? They did still have Coronet scripts on the sides right??? Can't be a separate model when the name "Coronet" is slapped on the side! If it were its own model, you would be calling it a Coronet 501. How many Coronet 500s were built?
Edited by Lancer Mike 2010-12-29 12:05 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | No, no - this list ought to read
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 51
1961 DART - RD3/4-L : Seneca 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 68
1961 PLYMOUTH - RP1/2-L : Savoy 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 74
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 82
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 97
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 122
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door limousine - 127
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door convertible - 140
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door limousine - 175
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door convertible - 191
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 198
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-S : 300-F 2-door convertible - 248
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 271
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 283
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 286
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 299
1957 DeSOTO - S26A : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 300
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 318
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : 300-G 2-door convertible - 337
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 428
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 429
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 433
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 444
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 474
1957 DeSOTO - C76 : 300-C 2-door convertible - 484
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 501
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 510
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 2-door convertible - 512
1958 DeSOTO - LS2-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 519
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 538
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door hardtop 550
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible 555
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 556
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 564
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 576
1959 DeSOTO - MS2-L : Firesweep V8 2-door convertible - 596
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 602
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 609
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door hardtop - 618
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 618
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 622
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 624
1955 DeSOTO - S22 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 625
1956 DeSOTO - S23 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 646
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 666
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 671
1958 IMPERIAL - LY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 675
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 676
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 692
1958 DeSOTO - LS1-L : Firesweep 2-door convertible - 700
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 751
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 760
1955 DeSOTO - S21 : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 775
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 775
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 791
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 837
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 862
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-L : Custom 2-door hardtop - 889
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 908
1957 IMPERIAL - IM1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 911
1961 DeSOTO - RS1-M : ---- 2-door hardtop - 911
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 934
1955 CHRYSLER - C68 : New Yorker DeLuxe 2-door convertible - 946
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 961
1960 CHRYSLER- PC3-S : 300-F 2-door hardtop - 964
1959 DODGE - MD3-H : Custom Royal 2-door convertible - 984
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 992
1956 DeSOTO - S24 : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 996
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 999
1955 IMPERIAL - C69 : Custom 2-door convertible - 1
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 2
1960 DODGE - PD1-L : Matador 2-door sedan - 2
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Location: Parts Unknown | Thou hast openeth thee proverbial "can o' worms" !
Do we count every last variation, like lottery numbers ... How many 56 Royal two-door sedans were
built with red roof, green, mid-body, and white lower body, up-grade Canadian interior, right-hand drive,
V-8 with 4bbl, red spark plug wires with black lettering, gum wrapper tossed in under the rear seat,
tinted glass, blackwall tires, full wheelcovers, fullcarpeting in brown, no backup lights, visor vanity mirror,
Powerflite, dual exhaust, radio delete, heater, rubber steering wheel, &c, &c, &c, .........
This is why I suggested just basic every-day models and leave all the specialty cars to a different status.
But that's just me .... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1053
Location: Ny | If the D501 were granted their own specific body #, then I would indeed consider it separate from the Coronet. This was the same point that I was trying to make about the Coronado, however we do not have a production number for it to "make the cut" on the list. |
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-12-29 12:31 AM
Thou hast openeth thee proverbial "can o' worms" !
Do we count every last variation, like lottery numbers ... How many 56 Royal two-door sedans were
built with red roof, green, mid-body, and white lower body, up-grade Canadian interior, right-hand drive,
V-8 with 4bbl, red spark plug wires with black lettering, gum wrapper tossed in under the rear seat,
tinted glass, blackwall tires, full wheelcovers, fullcarpeting in brown, no backup lights, visor vanity mirror,
Powerflite, dual exhaust, radio delete, heater, rubber steering wheel, &c, &c, &c, .........
This is why I suggested just basic every-day models and leave all the specialty cars to a different status.
But that's just me ....
Nope. The list I provided, for example, shows make/series/body style as recorded by Chrysler. No information on body colour, transmissions, engine compartment decoration, tires, heater, radio (no FWL car could be ordered with radio delete - only a selection of "radio" was optional), or any other option. Engines only come into play when Chrysler takes note of it in the model number, such as a Coronet hardtop - 302 for the 6 and 312 for the V8. That is the way Chrysler counted them up. Chrysler did not record how many Coronets had a 361, 383 4-bbl (DeSoto Fireflite engine) or D-501. Those engines were not specified in the model number and thus were not recorded in production by body style.
In the cases of the Coronado and D-500, no special model numbers were used. There was an option code, or codes, that could be used to confirm whether the car was built as a Coronado or D-500, but no unique model number.
And as long as any Coronado, Seville, D-501, Silver Special, Texan, Ohioan, etc. does not have a unique model number, it should not be included in the list.
A separate list for engine options, trim options, etc., fine.
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | Highball57 - 2010-12-28 11:40 PM
I have used the info for years contained in the "Red Book, National Used Car Market Reports," and have them going back to 1926.
Look at the bottom of page 51 and you'll see the D501 listed as a Model (D501), with a breakout of Motor Numbers, and two body styles;
don't know why the 2drht is absent. The D501 listing continues at the top of page 52 with its unique engine specs.
Throughout the '56-'58 Dodge listing of this Sept., 1960 issue, you'll see the D500 referred to as an engine option, to be considered like
power steering, auto trans, etc. Car companies sent this data to Red Book, NADA, Kelley, etc., for use by dealers, law enforcement,
insurance companies and more, and that data is generally irrefutable. Taking Horace's NADA listing a step further, if Dodge listed the D501
with a Model designation in these period publications, then it's more than a mere engine option; it's a separate model.
Note on the right of the D501 listing it states, "Began Mar, 1957" and all other Models, "Began Oct, 1956."
TG
It's nice that the various used car guides called the D501-equipped cars model D-501 instead of D66, but CHRYSLER did not. A car equipped with the D501 engine were called, and recorded as, D66.
And as Chrysler did not issue a special model number for the cars equipped with the D-501 option, Chrysler did not record separate figures for these models on their production by body style reports.
Thus all D501 models should be considered an engine option or package.
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | The 1955 "-4" models were not offered as V8 models, only 6 cylinder. From 1955 through 1957 Plymouth and its related Dodge / DeSoto models had different model numbers for 6 and 8 cylinder models. Which is why they were included. If the "-4" models came as 6 and V8 versions, I would have considered the combined totals in selecting the lowest production models.
I do not have a breakdown of 6 and V8 production for the 1956 and up models, but I do for the 1955 Plymouth. And only the P26-4 had models with production less than 1,000. There were no P27-4 models.
So the P26-4 models remain on the list.
I included the DeSoto taxi models for their uniqueness. The interiors were not the same as the regular Firesweep models as they were taxi models. I have yet to come across a photo so I do not yet know if the trim was simpler on the Taxi as opposed to the regular Firesweep.
The surprising thing is that the Taxi models use the same model numbers as the V8 versions. The 1958 Taxi is model LS1-T as opposed to LS1-L for the regular Firesweep models. You would think Chrysler would have called it LS0-T, just as they did for the body number for the Coronet 6 in 1959.
Edited by Chrycoman 2010-12-29 1:23 AM
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Location: Parts Unknown | Bill,
From a technical, FACTORY perspective, your logic in application rules.
I just see it from the perspective of what you saw on the street (or wrecking yard), and while the
factory angle offers eleventy-thousand variables and contingencies, I tend to simplify things down to
just basic models. My poor brain goes into meltdown with so many exceptions and sidenotes ! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Bill, you are just flat incorrect, about referring to the D501's as being 'another' Coronet model.
All people are the same species, too. No special models there, either.
A customer could not order-up a D501 engine in any other model, except as a standard equipment item in a D501,
which was a complete chassis-engine package which included Imperial steering knuckles and wheels and brakes.
The engine was a highly modified Chrysler 354 c.i. 300B, with 300 C carburetors and with 354 Dodge Hemi truck exhaust
manifolds.
Like I said, in addition to the American Manufacturer's Specifications sheets which were put out to homologate the D501's
unique equipment, for (theoretical, as it turned out) NASCAR purposes, Dodge also provided the D501 with unique BDY
codings, to differentiate it from any other Coronet model.
Dodge "had" to give the D501 a marketing brand-name, so, Coronet was the only choice, as being the basis for the creation of the D501 race cars.
The D501 was NOT an engine-only option, like the D500's were, available on any car model.
Besides, if this "list" is going to recognize a Matador 2-dr sedan, or sum-such, then, the 501's should be broken out into their 10 hardtop, 23 convertible and 69 sedan iterations.
Edited by d500neil 2010-12-29 9:44 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Here is how I would suggest we further organize Bill's list. I threw out the six-cylinder Belvederes because they open up all of that engine stuff that wasn't part of the original question. Someone made the point that 2-seat and 3-seat wagons are strange because they are basically an optional seat and I agree - so I put them at the end except for the 1960 Dart Phoenix, the 1959 DeSoto Fireflite, and the 1958 DeSoto Fireflite because no matter whether you have two or three seats, production totals are still under 1,000. Take a look:
RAREST FORWARDLOOK PASSENGER CARS BY MODEL AND BODY STYLE
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 51
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 82
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 97
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door limousine - 127
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door convertible - 140
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door limousine - 175
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door convertible - 191
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-S : 300-F 2-door convertible - 248
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 283
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 286
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 299
1957 DeSOTO - S26A : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 300
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon - 320
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : 300-G 2-door convertible - 337
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 429
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 474
1957 DeSOTO - C76 : 300-C 2-door convertible - 484
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 501
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 510
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 2-door convertible - 512
1958 DeSOTO - LS2-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 519
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 538
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door hardtop 550
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible 555
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 556
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 576
1959 DeSOTO - MS2-L : Firesweep V8 2-door convertible - 596
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 602
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door hardtop - 618
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 618
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 622
1955 DeSOTO - S22 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 625
1956 DeSOTO - S23 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 646
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 666
1958 IMPERIAL - LY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 675
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 692
1958 DeSOTO - LS1-L : Firesweep 2-door convertible - 700
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 704
1955 DeSOTO - S21 : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 775
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-L : Custom 2-door hardtop - 889
1957 IMPERIAL - IM1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 911
1961 DeSOTO - RS1-M : 2-door hardtop - 911
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 927
1955 CHRYSLER - C68 : New Yorker DeLuxe 2-door convertible - 946
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 961
1960 CHRYSLER- PC3-S : 300-F 2-door hardtop - 964
1959 DODGE - MD3-H : Custom Royal 2-door convertible - 984
1956 DeSOTO - S24 : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 996
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 999
OTHER PRODUCTION RARITIES
1955 IMPERIAL - C69 : Custom 2-door convertible - 1
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 2
1960 DODGE - PD1-L : Matador 2-door sedan - 2
RAREST STATION WAGONS BY SEAT CONFIGURATION
1961 DART - RD3/4-L : Seneca 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 68
1961 PLYMOUTH - RP1/2-L : Savoy 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 74
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 122
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 198
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 271
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 318
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 428
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 433
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 444
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 564
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 609
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 624
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 671
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 676
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 751
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 760
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 775
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 791
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 837
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 862
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 908
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 934
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 992
Edited by Lancer Mike 2010-12-30 5:40 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | d500neil - 2010-12-29 9:39 PM
Bill, you are just flat incorrect, about referring to the D501's as being 'another' Coronet model.
All people are the same species, too. No special models there, either.
A customer could not order-up a D501 engine in any other model, except as a standard equipment item in a D501,
which was a complete chassis-engine package which included Imperial steering knuckles and wheels and brakes.
The engine was a highly modified Chrysler 354 c.i. 300B, with 300 C carburetors and with 354 Dodge Hemi truck exhaust
manifolds.
Like I said, in addition to the American Manufacturer's Specifications sheets which were put out to homologate the D501's
unique equipment, for (theoretical, as it turned out) NASCAR purposes, Dodge also provided the D501 with unique BDY
codings, to differentiate it from any other Coronetk model.
Dodge "had" to give the D501 a marketing brand-name, so, Coronet was the only choice, as being the basis for the creation of the D501 race cars.
The D501 was NOT an engine-only option, like the D500's were, available on any car model.
Besides, if this "list" is going to recognize a Matador 2-dr sedan, or sum-such, then, the 501's should be broken out into their 10 hardtop, 23 convertible and 69 sedan iterations.
Well, we got two problems. The used car guides being used as proof the D501 models were separate from the Coronet list two body styles - 2-door sedan and 2-door convertible. Yet your production figures show three body styles were offered, the third being the 2-door hardtop.
For years now I have been reading about how the D-501 was a separate line with unique BDY codes. Yet no one has actually mentioned the codes. So, to solve problem #2, below are the body styles for the Coronet and the D-501. If you could be so kind as to fill in the blanks we can end this discussion once and for all -
D66 : Coronet V8
2-door sedan - BDY : _____
4-door sedan - BDY : _____
2-door hardop - BDY : _____
4-door hardtop - BDY : _____
2-door convertible - BDY : _____
D501 : Coronet V8
2-door sedan - BDY : _____
2-door hardop - BDY : _____
2-door convertible - BDY : _____
Thank you.
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Location: Parts Unknown | Chrycoman - 2010-12-31 7:51 PM
My Hermburkler guide shows the following:
D66 : Coronet V8
2-door sedan - BDY : _2201____
4-door sedan - BDY : _3104____
2-door hardop - BDY : _906____
4-door hardtop - BDY : _5____
2-door convertible - BDY : _QR7____
D501 : Coronet V8
2-door sedan - BDY : _2112____
2-door hardop - BDY : _56____
2-door convertible - BDY : __OB1___
Thank you.
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Veteran
Posts: 119
| What is a Hermburkler Guide?
Just curious,
TG |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 475
Location: Las Vegas, NV | Highball57 - 2011-01-19 5:48 AM
What is a Hermburkler Guide?
Just curious,
TG
It's a guide on how to steal hamburgers. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1053
Location: Ny | Rabble, Rabble! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 496
| If any of you actually owned a '57 D-501, you wouldn't care about any of this.
Let's start a new thread based on who has earned the tallest trophy at a car show!
Aaron |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 496
| Oh.. nothing... just getting back on topic.  |
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Location: The Mile High City | herburkler guide = no such thing. I think Doc was answering the unanserable question.
Joakim pointed out a typo on the list (thank you):
RAREST FORWARDLOOK PASSENGER CARS BY MODEL AND BODY STYLE
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 51
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 82
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 97
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door limousine - 127
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door convertible - 140
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door limousine - 175
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door convertible - 191
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-S : 300-F 2-door convertible - 248
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 283
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 286
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 299
1957 DeSOTO - S26A : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 300
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon - 320
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : 300-G 2-door convertible - 337
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 429
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 474
1957 CHRYSLER - C76 : 300-C 2-door convertible - 484
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 501
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 510
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 2-door convertible - 512
1958 DeSOTO - LS2-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 519
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 538
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door hardtop 550
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible 555
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 556
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 576
1959 DeSOTO - MS2-L : Firesweep V8 2-door convertible - 596
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 602
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door hardtop - 618
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 618
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 622
1955 DeSOTO - S22 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 625
1956 DeSOTO - S23 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 646
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 666
1958 IMPERIAL - LY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 675
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 692
1958 DeSOTO - LS1-L : Firesweep 2-door convertible - 700
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 704
1955 DeSOTO - S21 : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 775
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-L : Custom 2-door hardtop - 889
1957 IMPERIAL - IM1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 911
1961 DeSOTO - RS1-M : 2-door hardtop - 911
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 927
1955 CHRYSLER - C68 : New Yorker DeLuxe 2-door convertible - 946
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 961
1960 CHRYSLER- PC3-S : 300-F 2-door hardtop - 964
1959 DODGE - MD3-H : Custom Royal 2-door convertible - 984
1956 DeSOTO - S24 : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 996
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 999
OTHER PRODUCTION RARITIES
1955 IMPERIAL - C69 : Custom 2-door convertible - 1
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 2
1960 DODGE - PD1-L : Matador 2-door sedan - 2
RAREST STATION WAGONS BY SEAT CONFIGURATION
1961 DART - RD3/4-L : Seneca 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 68
1961 PLYMOUTH - RP1/2-L : Savoy 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 74
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 122
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 198
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 271
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 318
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 428
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 433
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 444
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 564
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 609
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 624
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 671
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 676
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 751
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 760
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 775
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 791
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 837
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 862
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 908
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 934
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 992 I saw in another thread that there was some discussion about Canadian Windsors in 1958 with crowns versus lions on the exterior and different interiors. It seems like those are still the same model and body style, so I don't know if they would fit. I also saw some export Firedome numbers listed in the Chrysler production figures, but I don't think they would fit on the list.
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Veteran
Posts: 204
Location: canandaigua, ny | the rarest..... ive only scene one my 1956 suburban...just because its mine and i LIKE it 
Edited by wild440 2011-01-19 6:56 PM
 (100_3444 (Small).JPG)
Attachments
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100_3444 (Small).JPG (59KB - 290 downloads)
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Veteran
Posts: 119
| There are some pics taken in 2003 of a D501 Coronet with a BDY of 2442. It's the Lee Smith car that's in the Rare Pics thread.
TG
Edited by Highball57 2011-01-19 7:24 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | So is a BDY code 2442 for this D501 (very nice BTW) any different than the BDY code for a run-of-the-mill Coronet club coupe?
What were the production numbers for '56 Dodge Suburban 2-door wagons?
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-01-20 3:17 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 119
| The BDY code for a Coronet 2dr sedan remains to be revealed, and since I don't have one out back,
maybe someone with such a car will come forward and provide it.
TG |
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Regular
Posts: 78
Location: Orland Ca | Here's one I haven't seen mentioned as far as names.....How many 59 Desoto Seville's were produced?
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Location: Parts Unknown | Lancer Mike - 2011-01-20 3:36 PM
hermburkler guide = no such thing. I think Doc was answering the unanserable question.
*****************************************************
Yeah, ... pretty much.
Tentatively optimistic, defining the undefinable since whenever. OK.
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Location: The Mile High City | I think we missed (at least) one:
1958 De Soto Adventurer hardtop 350
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-07-18 4:11 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | RAREST FORWARDLOOK PASSENGER CARS BY MODEL AND BODY STYLE
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 51
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 82
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 97
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door limousine - 127
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door convertible - 140
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door limousine - 175
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door convertible - 191
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-S : 300-F 2-door convertible - 248
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 283
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 286
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 299
1957 DeSOTO - S26A : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 300
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon - 320
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : 300-G 2-door convertible - 337
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 350
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 429
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 474
1957 CHRYSLER - C76 : 300-C 2-door convertible - 484
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 501
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 510
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 2-door convertible - 512
1958 DeSOTO - LS2-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 519
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 538
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door hardtop 550
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible 555
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 556
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 576
1959 DeSOTO - MS2-L : Firesweep V8 2-door convertible - 596
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 602
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door hardtop - 618
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 618
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 622
1955 DeSOTO - S22 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 625
1956 DeSOTO - S23 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 646
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 666
1958 IMPERIAL - LY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 675
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 692
1958 DeSOTO - LS1-L : Firesweep 2-door convertible - 700
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 704
1955 DeSOTO - S21 : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 775
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-L : Custom 2-door hardtop - 889
1957 IMPERIAL - IM1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 911
1961 DeSOTO - RS1-M : 2-door hardtop - 911
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 927
1955 CHRYSLER - C68 : New Yorker DeLuxe 2-door convertible - 946
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 961
1960 CHRYSLER- PC3-S : 300-F 2-door hardtop - 964
1959 DODGE - MD3-H : Custom Royal 2-door convertible - 984
1956 DeSOTO - S24 : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 996
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 999
OTHER PRODUCTION RARITIES
1955 IMPERIAL - C69 : Custom 2-door convertible - 1
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 2
1960 DODGE - PD1-L : Matador 2-door sedan - 2
RAREST STATION WAGONS BY SEAT CONFIGURATION
1961 DART - RD3/4-L : Seneca 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 68
1961 PLYMOUTH - RP1/2-L : Savoy 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 74
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 122
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 198
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 271
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 318
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 428
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 433
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 444
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 564
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 609
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 624
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 671
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 676
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 751
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 760
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 775
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 791
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 837
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 862
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 908
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 934
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 992
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Location: Parts Unknown | I like your breakout above. It more accurately represents the crazy-weird ones and puts the
wagons in their unique seating breakdown.
Now what about a 56 NY'er wagon in monotone grey WITHOUT the bolt-on fins, red leather, A/C.
PS, PB, PW, and blackwalls with spinner hubcaps ?
Nice work.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: Pau, S-W France | Found here http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/archive/index.php/t-9823.... about the (export) 1959 Diplomat Adventurer: The only figures I have by body style are for the 1959 Diplomat Adventurer - fourteen 2-door hardtops and eight convertibles. All were built in Detroit and all had V8 engines. The Diplomat Adventurer (and the Dodge Kingsway Lancer) are Sport Fury with Desoto or Dodge front end
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Location: Parts Unknown | Hehehehe !
The limited production export market stuff needs a whole book unto itself with different
chapters for each country's special build. So, who wants to volunteer to compile that data ?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
Location: Finger Lakes NY | ive heard different numbers on the 59 sevilles id love to know actual numbers personally
currently i know of 3 firesweep sevilles and 2 firedome sevilles
i have a firedome seville 2drhtp that im slowly restoring and the other firedome seville was a 4drhtp that was in a pa junkyard |
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Location: The Mile High City | From what I understand from Bill, those export models may actually be accounted for within the production numbers for other models as "ckd" or complete knock-downs. For example, a 1958 Dodge Mayfair two-door hardtop may have been included within the Plymouth Belvedere two-door hardtop production numbers as a complete knock-down. Also, the Ghia limousines may have been included in the Imperial production numbers as ckd two-door hardtops, although they have a much better history of tracking and recording than the Diplomats, Mayfairs, Regents, etc.
Yes, Jeff - Sevilles, Coronados, St. Regis, Texans (?) etc. may have a spot on the list although it would take someone actually going through all of the Chrysler Historical records to determine how many were built and extract those from the Firedomes, Fireflites, etc. That may be possible for Sevilles and Coronados, but at some point - you get into Texans and Spring Specials where even the Chrysler Historical records may not be able to tell the whole story since they shipped out boxes of trim to dealers...
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-07-19 11:31 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | Somebody enlighten me on those Darts. Joakim had a question about them. Are the Darts really a separate make from Dodge in '60 and '61? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | 1957 D501 verts; at least 24 known
1957 D501 sedans; at least 70 known
1957 D501 hardtops; at least 4 known
By extrapolation, from at least 102 built: 4 car types not yet found in CHS build records.
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Location: Parts Unknown | Neil,
You need to be more clear in your statement above. Are these "known" to have been built ?
Or are they "known" to survive ? I kinda doubt it is the latter, but it would be prudent to be
very clear in such statements, as we all know how things get misread and "become fact" with a
couple repeats !
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | Pre 1960 Dodge dealers generally sold Ply. It was decided in 1960 top offer the Dodge Dart which only Dodge Dealers would sell as a competitor to Chev, Ply, & Ford. They were offered as low priced Seneca vs Biscayne & Savoy & Custom. Pioneer priced with Belair Fairlane & Belvedere. Pheonix the top name plate was pitted vs Galaxie, Impala or Fury. The Darts were similar in wheelbase to Ford Chev Ply with competing body styles offered. The styling is similar but not the same as Polara or Matador however many body panels were shared or perhaps better stated rear qtr were totally diff. 60 & 61 Darts were full sized cars which changed to a compact Name in 63. My car is A 60 Dodge Dart Pheonix D500.
The 60 Dart was tremendously successful. I believe the car was totally built out to capacity. I remember in our town people traded 59 Chevs, Fords, Pont, & Olds for the new Dodges. The Darts were 118wb the big Dodge 122wb |
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Member
Posts: 44
| the 55 desoto coronados are indeed rare. I owned one about 8 years ago. I bought it for 100 bucks as a parts car. it was in pretty good shape and complete minus the engine/trans. Even had a title. Now I wish I wouldnt have parted it out and scrapped it. I did also own a 61 Chrysler New Yorker Convertible. so being only 25 years old and owned 2 cars on the list, I feel pretty good. |
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Expert ,, George Passed away July 28th 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1295
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | According to the 300 Club International records, there are only 121 surviving 57 300C convertibles surviving.
George
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Location: Parts Unknown | According to Doctor DeSoto, there are six confirmed 58 Fireflite convertibles surviving, with 4 of them
no longer in the U.S.
Of course, this kind of declaration can never be construed to represent how many actually survive, as
the moment one does, another is discovered as it sits forgotten in a garage, or offered up on eBay. The
recent eBay 57 NY'er convertible would be a good example.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 452
Location: Southern California | Right on Doc! I suppose the cars that had the least amount of likeability were abandoned and crushed earlier than the higher selling, more popular models, like the Chyrslers mentioned above. 121 remaining!! That's a batallion!
According to the National Desoto Club membership roster, there are 6 '58 Firedome convertibles remaining. |
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Veteran
Posts: 254
Location: Austria, Vienna | 7 firedomes. I have 3 out of 7.:) |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Brent, of the at least 4 hardtop D501's that were built, two were at Daytona, Kiekaeffer had one built for him (on
a convertible frame, no less), and Darrell Davis had found another one in his CHS research; it's unclear if that car
was one of the Daytona prototypes, he overlooked obtaining its IBM card, because he didn't realize that that Engineering
Department car was an actual 501, because it was a HT model.
I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt, and calling that car (at least) the 4th hardtop built.
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Location: Parts Unknown | Gidman - 2011-07-25 11:41 AM
Right on Doc! I suppose the cars that had the least amount of likeability were abandoned and crushed earlier than the higher selling, more popular models, like the Chyrslers mentioned above. 121 remaining!! That's a batallion!
According to the National Desoto Club membership roster, there are 6 '58 Firedome convertibles remaining.
*****************************************************
You make a good point, Gary. Only fools like these ugly old DeSotos. Everyone else had the
good sense to either junk theirs or turn them into a 300.
I wasn't never that smart, ... obviously !
Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2011-07-25 12:02 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | So should I change the list to say "DODGE Dart Phoenix" instead of DART Phoenix?
or perhaps even "DODGE Phoenix" and drop the DART altogether?
That DART business is throwing me off! Is that accurate?
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-07-25 5:30 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | Dodge Dart Pheonix is correct, nothing to be thrown off about. The car is a smaller ie Fury Galaxie sized car. You might like to know they didn't say Dart on them except & only some on the glove box. They were never known formally as a Dart, they had Dodge in script on them. Very unlike the smaller Valiant which was a Valiant only not as a Ply Valiant, MORE CONFUSION |
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Location: The Mile High City | Thanks Horace - here is the updated list:
RAREST FORWARDLOOK PASSENGER CARS BY MODEL AND BODY STYLE
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 51
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 82
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 97
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door limousine - 127
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door convertible - 140
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door limousine - 175
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door convertible - 191
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-S : 300-F 2-door convertible - 248
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 283
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 286
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 299
1957 DeSOTO - S26A : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 300
1960 DODGE - PD3-4/H : Dart Phoenix 4-door wagon - 320
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : 300-G 2-door convertible - 337
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 350
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 429
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 474
1957 CHRYSLER - C76 : 300-C 2-door convertible - 484
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 501
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 510
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 2-door convertible - 512
1958 DeSOTO - LS2-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 519
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 538
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door hardtop 550
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible 555
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 556
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 576
1959 DeSOTO - MS2-L : Firesweep V8 2-door convertible - 596
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 602
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door hardtop - 618
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 618
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 622
1955 DeSOTO - S22 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 625
1956 DeSOTO - S23 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 646
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 666
1958 IMPERIAL - LY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 675
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 692
1958 DeSOTO - LS1-L : Firesweep 2-door convertible - 700
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 704
1955 DeSOTO - S21 : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 775
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-L : Custom 2-door hardtop - 889
1957 IMPERIAL - IM1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 911
1961 DeSOTO - RS1-M : 2-door hardtop - 911
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 927
1955 CHRYSLER - C68 : New Yorker DeLuxe 2-door convertible - 946
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 961
1960 CHRYSLER- PC3-S : 300-F 2-door hardtop - 964
1959 DODGE - MD3-H : Custom Royal 2-door convertible - 984
1956 DeSOTO - S24 : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 996
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 999
OTHER PRODUCTION RARITIES
1955 IMPERIAL - C69 : Custom 2-door convertible - 1
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 2
1960 DODGE - PD1-L : Matador 2-door sedan - 2
RAREST STATION WAGONS BY SEAT CONFIGURATION
1961 DODGE - RD3/4-L : Dart Seneca 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 68
1961 PLYMOUTH - RP1/2-L : Savoy 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 74
1960 DODGE - PD3-4/H : Dart Phoenix 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 122
1960 DODGE - PD3-4/H : Dart Phoenix 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 198
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 271
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 318
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 428
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 433
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 444
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 564
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 609
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 624
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 671
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 676
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 751
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 760
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 775
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 791
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 837
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 862
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 908
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 934
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 992
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-07-27 11:32 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: MN | Dart Seneca please instead of Seneca DaRT PICKY PICKY
Thank You |
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Location: The Mile High City | Alright, Gerry - I was able to edit that one! Thanks - we do want accuracy after all! |
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Veteran
Posts: 225
| I wouldn't consider any thing over 600 models produced as rare, also options dont make a model rare either (the option may be rare but not the model of the car) excluding being a convertible.
Convertibles should have there own model designation all to there own, as the cars are completely diffrent from production models in most cases with frame and body mods from one mfg to another.
Also Just because a car or an option is Rare doesn't make the car desirable or valuable.
There are no really good answers for most of this but there should be some rules applied wich could be applied from one mfg models to another while trying to answer the question.
Such as in example at least 500 models built to be considered a production vehicle, but less than say 700 total to be considered as being rare.
Anything less than 300 built should be considered special built and not included, anything from 301 to 499 considered special ordered. just an example.
As far as Finding out how many models survive today a registry needs to be created good luck getting owners to provide information.
57 New Yorker dual quad cars didn't make the list???? LOL!
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Edited by Doright 2011-08-10 10:01 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | It is difficult to figure out a cut-off point. This list is arbitrarily cut-off at 1,000 units - which seems just as good as any other arbitrary number or place. Compared to '57 Plymouth Savoy sedan production at 153,093 units, all of these cars were (are) rare as hen's teeth.
Yes, I agree - none of this should imply any type of value judgement ('57 Plymouth Savoy sedans are glorious cars) - I just wondered one day what the rarest model and body style numbers were for all of the Forward Look cars together, which I think is an factually answerable question based on the production numbers that Chrysler puts out.
I think we have narrowed down on that question pretty well! However, there may be corrections or additions to the list and I hope we can ferret those out. |
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Expert
Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | Another one to add to the list would be a 1956 Imperial Convertible, with 3 made.
http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/news/hobby-news/1956_imperial_converti...
Apparently these were New Yorkers modified by George Barris, so not factory built:
http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1955/KTKeller/index.htm
Edited by christine-lover 2011-12-03 12:00 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3588
Location: Plymouth Spaceport | Doctor DeSoto - 2011-07-22 10:49 PM
Neil,
You need to be more clear in your statement above. Are these "known" to have been built ?
Or are they "known" to survive ? I kinda doubt it is the latter, but it would be prudent to be
very clear in such statements, as we all know how things get misread and "become fact" with a
couple repeats !
Oh come on "Doc"!,Most of us here are far too intelligent to simply accept something as fact simply because its been repeated several times!
Now I will go try and find a Hermburkler guide since I've heard its the final word on the production numbers for these vehicles.
Edited by 1960DesotoAdventurer 2011-12-03 1:51 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1115
Location: CA | Where in this list would a 57 Dodge CRL 4-dr Sed with the D500 be in this list? It's got to be a rare bird with far more conv and ht's built with that versus the sedan. Not implying value or desirability but rarity. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | When you start breaking it down like this, where do you stop ?
How about a 57 Dodge Royal sedan in monotone dark blue metallic, with dog dish
hubcaps, blackwall rayon tires, radio delete, full Solex glass, 3 speed stick, PS, but
manual brakes, power seat and windows, accessory group 3, all-vinyl interior, trunk
light, and tissue dispenser ? See how this can turn any car into lottery-type statistics ?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1115
Location: CA | I was just curious how rare the D500 (hemi motor optioned) cars were and amongst it approx how many sedans it wound up in. I've gathered through my reads/interactions on here the D500 is rather rare in and of itself but I'm curious how rare it is per body style. One would think it was far more likely to be ordered or offered in hardtops and convertibles or at least that seems to be what has primarily survived. I don't really care about the color/options because out of the tens-hundreds of thousands of cars they built and can configure there must not have been those kinds of numbers associated with the hemi engine option within the Dodge line. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | This discussion has been had before. Because of the intense interest in 57 Dodges in particular,
and thanks to the efforts of guys like Neil Vedder and Darrell Davis, a much clearer window is
known about this kind of ratio you ask about on 57 model year, and somewhat extrapolated out
over the 56 - 61 cars. Neil will likely see this soonly and give it his best.
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Location: The Mile High City | According to Jeffrey Godshall, there were
1957 D500 17,782 of 328,055 5.42%
1957 D501 101 of 143,321 (Coronet Eights) 0.70%
1958 D500 7,617 of 140,114 5.44%
1959 D500 4,822 of 156,385 3.08%
To go any further would require detailed access to Chrysler Historical records, which Darrell Davis has done for the D501s. We steered away from engine options in this thread because that naturally leads to transmission options and so on and so on.
You could spread those 17,782 D500s amongst the 328,055 1957 Dodges evenly or by some other method of mathematical distribution, but you would only measure expectations. I have monkeyed around with the possible D500 distribution numbers for 1958 Dodges - all of it is just conjecture.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-12-04 5:59 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3069
Location: Scotland | Lancer Mike - 2010-12-06 2:20 PM
I have heard of Diplomats
I have heard of Adventurers
A Diplomat Adventurer?
Is that an Adventurer-Powered Diplomat?
I'd agree the one year only export specials 1959 DeSoto Diplomat Adventurer and Dodge Kingsway Lancer .
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Member
Posts: 47
Location: Atlanta | How about the 58 Plymouth silver special? |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I don't think a separate record was kept on the Silver Special. It was lumped in with
the Plaza series cars. In spite of being a special edition car designed to pump sales. the
program was fairly successful and it seems quite a few were made. They show up
regularly in old photos from the late 50's and early 60's. Being an el Cheapo model, and
el Cheapos being so out of favor with car guys for so long - it has only been in the last 5
years or so that these bottom-end strippers have begun to get some respect - that many
of the survivors were chopped up for parts cars for the fancier models being restored.
Not many remain today, but I suspect 1000's were built.
Go Team Plaza !!!
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Expert
Posts: 3588
Location: Plymouth Spaceport | Doe anybody know how many 1960 DeSotos received the "power charge" cross ram setup? |
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Expert
Posts: 1493
Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | By the way, the Norseman is not far from my house, at the bottom of the sea. Might be cool to try and find it. It's not far from Woods Hole where they have all those little dive submarines. And I seem to recall someone was trying to make a replica.
Back on point, I still wonder about a customer ordered factory muscle car. Like a '58 Dodge or Plymouth with a fuelie B block, radio and heater delete, no back seat. The lightest and fastest thing you could order from Mother Mopar. I also like the idea of those test cars. Like the 61 Windsor with the 300 H drive line.
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Location: The Mile High City | It would be interesting to find numbers for some of those specials like Coronados, LaFemme's, Darts, Sevilles, and Silver Specials. There were 1,163 Regal Lancers made - so they just missed the cut.
The export models are fascinating. I wonder if those numbers might have been lumped into the production numbers for Plymouth two door hardtops, etc.? If they are mixed in, they could probably be extracted - if we only had access to the files!
Godshall had access to the files for his article on '57 - '59 Swept Wing Dodges and he was able to determine exact numbers for each year's manual transmission, powerflite, torqueflite, power steering, power brakes, air conditioning, and swivel seats individually cross-referenced to either eight or six cylinder cars. Using his numbers, you could definitely say that a 1957 Coronet with a six-cylinder engine and power steering is rare with only 180 built! However, the article does not divulge how many of the 7,175 club sedans, 10,483 sedans, or 20,499 Canadian/exports were so equipped and does not get into further combinations. If anyone has additions for a strict combination of model and body style under 1,000 units - post 'em!
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-12-14 11:54 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | Here is the list we have so far: RAREST FORWARDLOOK PASSENGER CARS BY MODEL AND BODY STYLE - NOT ENGINE OR OPTIONS
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 51
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 82
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 97
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door limousine - 127
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door convertible - 140
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door limousine - 175
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door convertible - 191
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-S : 300-F 2-door convertible - 248
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 283
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 286
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 299
1957 DeSOTO - S26A : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 300
1960 DODGE - PD3-4/H : Dart Phoenix 4-door wagon - 320
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : 300-G 2-door convertible - 337
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 350
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 429
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 474
1957 CHRYSLER - C76 : 300-C 2-door convertible - 484
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 501
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 510
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 2-door convertible - 512
1958 DeSOTO - LS2-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 519
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 538
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door hardtop 550
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible 555
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 556
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 576
1959 DeSOTO - MS2-L : Firesweep V8 2-door convertible - 596
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 602
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door hardtop - 618
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 618
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 622
1955 DeSOTO - S22 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 625
1956 DeSOTO - S23 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 646
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 666
1958 IMPERIAL - LY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 675
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 692
1958 DeSOTO - LS1-L : Firesweep 2-door convertible - 700
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 704
1955 DeSOTO - S21 : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 775
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-L : Custom 2-door hardtop - 889
1957 IMPERIAL - IM1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 911
1961 DeSOTO - RS1-M : 2-door hardtop - 911
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 927
1955 CHRYSLER - C68 : New Yorker DeLuxe 2-door convertible - 946
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 961
1960 CHRYSLER- PC3-S : 300-F 2-door hardtop - 964
1959 DODGE - MD3-H : Custom Royal 2-door convertible - 984
1956 DeSOTO - S24 : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 996
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 999
OTHER PRODUCTION RARITIES
1955 IMPERIAL - C69 : Custom 2-door convertible - 1
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 2
1960 DODGE - PD1-L : Matador 2-door sedan - 2
RAREST STATION WAGONS BY SEAT CONFIGURATION
1961 DODGE - RD3/4-L : Dart Seneca 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 68
1961 PLYMOUTH - RP1/2-L : Savoy 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 74
1960 DODGE - PD3-4/H : Dart Phoenix 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 122
1960 DODGE - PD3-4/H : Dart Phoenix 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 198
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 271
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 318
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 428
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 433
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 444
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 564
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 609
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 624
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 671
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 676
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 751
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 760
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 775
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 791
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 837
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 862
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 908
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 934
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 992
Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-12-14 5:28 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | Lancer Mike - 2011-12-14 12:58 AM
It would be interesting to find numbers for some of those specials like Coronados, LaFemme's, Darts, Sevilles, and Silver Specials. There were 1,163 Regal Lancers made - so they just missed the cut.
The export models are fascinating. I wonder if those numbers might have been lumped into the production numbers for Plymouth two door hardtops, etc.? If they are mixed in, they could probably be extracted - if we only had access to the files!
Godshall had access to the files for his article on '57 - '59 Swept Wing Dodges and he was able to determine exact numbers for each year's manual transmission, powerflite, torqueflite, power steering, power brakes, air conditioning, and swivel seats individually cross-referenced to either eight or six cylinder cars. Using his numbers, you could definitely say that a 1957 Coronet with a six-cylinder engine and power steering is rare with only 180 built! However, the article does not divulge how many of the 7,175 club sedans, 10,483 sedans, or 20,499 Canadian/exports were so equipped and does not get into further combinations. If anyone has additions for a strict combination of model and body style under 1,000 units - post 'em!
Yes, all export DeSoto figures are included in Plymouth production numbers - they even used Plymouth serial numbers for1937 through 1959 and then Dodge Dart for 1960-61.
The export Dodge Kingsway had separate numbers up to 1950, which also included Canadian production. American-built 1951 to 1959 Kingsway production was also included with Plymouth numbers and serial numbers.
Somewhere 1957-59 Diplomat and Kingsway figures exist. Don Butler in "The Plymouth-DeSoto Story" was able to locate Diplomat Adventurer figures - 14 2-door hardtops and 8 convertibles. I suspect Kingsway Lancer figures are a little higher as the Kingsway usually sold more than the Diplomat in the 1957-59 era.
Chrysler Historical at one point included a sheet of production by body style figures. Members have shared Dodge and DeSoto for 1957 to 1960 and the sheets have a second number listed as "Export". Those export figures are really Canadian production. Too bad none seems to have a Plymouth sheet from 1957 to 1959 - would like to see how they handled the Diplomat/Kingsway/Canadian Dodge numbers.
I suspect those numbers were taken from a Chrysler publication done in 1962 - "Model Charts - Production by Body Styles". Would love to get my hands on a copy of that publication. Bet we could fill in a few hundred blank spots in body style production.
In the article on the 1957-59 Dodges, the 1957 D64 Coronet 6 is actually the D64 Kingsway 6 / Canadian Dodge 6. The 20,499 includes 15,076 6-cylinder Crusader, Regent, Mayfair and Kingsway models built in Canada as well as 5,423 Kingswy models built in the U.S. Similarly the D65 Coronet V8 is actually the D65 Kingsway V8 / Canadian Dodge V8. The 19,146 includes 16,826 V8 Crusader, Regent, Mayfair and Kingsway models built in Canada as well as 2,320 Kingsway and Mayfair convertible models built in the U.S.
The 1958 LE1 Coronet L-6 models are actually American-built LE1 Kingsway 6 while the LE2 V8 is for American-built Kingsway V8 models. Same goes for the 1959 Canada/export entries - both American-built Kingsway models - ME1 6 cylinder and ME2 V8 models. The LE2 and ME2 numbers also includes Mayfair convertibles and 3-seat station wagons for Canada.
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Location: The Mile High City | Perhaps we should add 1956 Imperial convertibles under other production rarities?
http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/news/hobby-news/1956_imperial_convertible_comes_out_of_hiding |
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New User
Posts: 2
| A short story about one of the 429 1961 Imperial convertables.
This pretty baby blue car was sold new at Boone County Motors, Columbia mo in 1961 to a travelling whiskey salesman. fall of 1963 I'm servicing it, an every other week event, with 89,000 miles on it. I walk into the showroom to hear the dealer telling a potiential customer about this Imperial conv he'll get in about a month with 18,000.
A month later the wiskey salesman's new car came in, he traded, we put in new carpet, pedel pads, new speedo and this 18,000 mile car went to it's new proud owner. |
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Location: The Mile High City | wow! it sounds like the used car dealers really earned their bad reputation back then! |
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Location: The Mile High City |
Oops! Christine Lover answered this one on the previous page. Not a factory product. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I don't know why Mike is so prejudiced (jealousy, apparently) about the 1957 Dodge Coronet D501 'race car' model,
which has its own unique model-body coding (not just some "TRM" coding, like a lot of the other cars have), unique
suspension/engine componentry, and there were only 102 (officially) of them built, in only three body styles: hardtop,
2-dr sedan, and convertibles.
If you want to split 'hares'....there were about 20 verts, 6 hardtops and around 76 sedans built.
Edited by d500neil 2012-01-17 2:36 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Neil. Well, if the D501 has a unique model and body code, it really should be on this list. However, my impression from the previous posts was that the Coronet model and body numbers were used for the D501s.
From the previous threads, I also did not include some very rare six-cylinder Plymouths and Dodges (for example, a 1958 Dodge Coronet six-cylinder two-door hardtop: total production 715) even though they actually do have unique model codes because that is a simple engine option. So, I am not trying to be prejudiced against the D501 or the D500-1, for that matter.
Tell me more about the model and body codes; what is the model and body code for a D501 sedan versus the model and body code for a Coronet sedan?
Edited by Lancer Mike 2012-01-18 1:12 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Chrycoman - 2010-12-30 8:51 PM
For years now I have been reading about how the D-501 was a separate line with unique BDY codes. Yet no one has actually mentioned the codes. So, to solve problem #2, below are the body styles for the Coronet and the D-501. If you could be so kind as to fill in the blanks we can end this discussion once and for all -
D66 : Coronet V8
2-door sedan - BDY : _____
4-door sedan - BDY : _____
2-door hardop - BDY : _____
4-door hardtop - BDY : _____
2-door convertible - BDY : _____
D501 : Coronet V8
2-door sedan - BDY : _____
2-door hardop - BDY : _____
2-door convertible - BDY : _____
Thank you.
Although a bit ashamed I have to reprint it, I think Bill makes a compelling argument relative to the topic of this thread: "Rarest FL Cars by Model and Body Style." I certainly agree that the D501 and D500-1 and 300F four-speed are very rare and very desirable - more desirable than many cars on this thread's list, but I just don't think they fit in with the original question - because, in fact, the D501 configuration (extensive as it was) was an option one could order within the Coronet line.
Neil, if the D501s are not coded D66 or they have different body codes than other Coronets - as you claim, please fill in the blanks and I will very happily add them to this list based on the numbers Darryl Davis has uncovered.
Otherwise, you can cover this "rare options" topic in a thread of your own.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2012-01-18 1:18 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2196
Location: Muskego, WI | 1955 Imperial Convertible - 1
1956 Imperial Convertible - 4 |
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Regular
Posts: 80
Location: Golden, CO | Hey Folks, Just want to chime in on this topic. The D500 was considered by Dodge to be a seperate model by their own definition in their own documents. They were creating a performance model much like future performance cars like the Road Runner or Super Bee these cars were based on cars that were produced and instead of obvious trim upgrades were given performance upgrades. The fact that you could not order a Coronet exactly like a D500 Coronet confirms this difference, furthermore the D500-1 and D501 were considered seperate as well. It is true some of the upgrades could be ordered on other models much like a Fury engine could be ordered on a lessor 57 Plymouth but to say that the Early D500 cars were not a seperate Model would directly contradict Dodges description of these cars. While a list of Rare models is compiled to ignore the manufacters intentions seems a major oversite. I think that especially in light of what small differences seperate some of the models in certain car lines a 56 D500 Coronet was a significantly differant car and likewise a D500-1 or D501 were very different cars than a Coronet. As time progressed models did loose their distinction like so many other models but intially to say these cars were not seperate is not accurate in my view. Several publications show the early D500 series as distinct models and unfortunatly as time has pasted it has been accepted to lump the early cars as engine options, if you need me to post the description from Dodge of the Model announcement I can. Dodge was different.
Edited by Dash One 2012-02-02 10:28 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | Howdy, Tim - thanks for chiming in on this. If you don't mind, please post the description. I am interested in putting the issue to rest. If we add them, that's fine, if we don't that's fine too. It seems like there is some genuine disagreement over this matter. Did the dash ones still carry the Coronet nameplate? |
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Regular
Posts: 80
Location: Golden, CO | Here is one of the final model year price bulletins for the 56 Dodge Models, Sorry for the quality. In 1956 the ONLY way to get a Hemi in a Dodge car was to order a D500 Model. In the Dodge documents it refers to the D500 Model as a D63-D500 and the Likewise they refered to the D500-1 as a D63-D501, that is why my ebay handle for over ten years has been 1956D501 because Dodge refers in its factory bulletins to these "Ultra Performance Cars" as "Model D63-D501" as well as D63-D500-1 and were considered by and large for sportsman use. I can post more bulletins to show this. Tim in Golden
Edited by Dash One 2012-02-03 9:20 AM
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Location: Parts Unknown | So, what does this make a 56 Custom Sierra D-500 ? It does wear "Sierra" tags on the
rear quarters, but "custom" is only known by the interior and a few easily swapped trim
pieces. It does wear the D-500 tags on the hood and tailgate.
Not trying to be a smartass about this. The original owner told me he special-ordered
this car. They both wanted a new 56 Dodge, the wife wanted a wagon and picked the colors.
He insisted on "all that go-fast stuff". It would be an interesting understanding to have as
to how that worked. I always understood the D-500 package to be an optional "package"
of Hemi, HP springs, bigger brakes ... that you could dump on ANY Dodge model, not a
model unto itself. But what do I know ?!!!
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Regular
Posts: 80
Location: Golden, CO | Well according to this price list it makes it a Custom Sierra D500 Station Wagon, Base price is $2815. And I know that Dodge marketing had a way of calling it a package or even an option, But the Corporate line was that the car was a new "Series" which is basically used as a word for Model in some of their documents. The factory refered to it as a Series or Model on it's paper work, with available options unique to the model. Don't get hung up on trim changes only and consider that many chassis upgrades constitute a big change. A Royal and a Coronet were quite simular, more simular than a Coronet and a D500 Coronet. Tim in Golden
Edited by Dash One 2012-02-03 9:36 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | Tim, do you have some production numbers for the dash ones? I'll put them in and we'll see how it looks. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Well, I tried to add Neil's 102 501's to the list along with the Ghias and Plymouth Six Wagons and Diplomat Adventurers, but it isn't intellectually honest within the context of model and body style. I have heard D501 production numbers of 101 and Neil says 102 but could be up to 105 - no one knows. I think this question of D501s and D500-1s has been asked and answered.
Chrycoman - 2010-12-10 9:43 PM
The D-500, D-501, Sonoramic, etc. were packages with the engine as the focal point. In the case of the D-500, you can find them on Coronet, Royal and Custom Royal models while the Sonoramic was available on all Plymouths. The cars on the list each have a unique model number. The D-500, D-501 and Sonoramic equipped vehicles do not.
The 1959 DeSoto Fireflite 2-door hardtop was model MS3-H 23, while the Adventurer 2-door hardtop was MS3-S 23. A 1959 Dodge Custom Royal with the base 361 V8 was model MD3-H 23 while a Custom Royal with the D-500 package (DeSoto Fireflite engine, basically) was still MD3-H 23. And that was how Chrysler counted production - by model number.
And that is to what the list should be sticking - production by model number. The D-500, D-501, etc. were all options, just like power steering, automatic transmissions, and whitewall tires. If someone wants to make a list how many cars were built by engine option, in particular hi-perf engines, fine. But this one should stick to production by model number (make, series and body style).
The model number information was entered on the bottom row of the body data tag on U.S. models and the top row on Canadian models, but not information on what was under the hood. That information was recorded in the options area of the American body data tag and not at all on the Canadian.
In the case of the D-501, is was not a model. It's fine that 10 D-501 hardtops were built, but of that 10 how many were Coronet, how many Royal and how many Custom Royal? And that is the sign of an option. The 1957 Dodge Coronet was model D66, the Royal was D67-2 and the Custom Royal was D67-3. We know how many hardtops were built in each series, and we know those totals include those built with the D-501 engine option. The D-500 and D-501 were not models, but engine packages/options.
Just my 2 cents Canadian (1.99 cents US).
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Regular
Posts: 80
Location: Golden, CO | I guess Chrycoman is wrong so don't go by him. The sonoramoc was a corporate wide deal far different in scope than what Dodge was doing in the mid 50s. The D500 cars were Models not options in the same way a Road Runner was not a Belvedere. Get with the program people. Simularly eventually the Roadrunner became an option but like the D500 they were not just options in the beginning. The factory didn't have to follow your post production rules for proper nomenclature. The D500 was a whole Series of Models intially and it was intially no different than adding a Windsor series or a Dart series or any series. It in fact progressed rapidly from its intial 3 Model Beginning. These Models were not Trim oriented they were Performance oriented. I geuss this if this doesn't fit your narrow view of model designation then it is flying in the face of exact information outlining and showing the intial D500 Series and Model Designations. These cars were refered to by Dodge as D63-D500 Models or D63-D500-1 (or even D501) Models. Tim in Golden
Edited by Dash One 2012-02-03 3:17 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Ok, so, in answer to Lancer Mike's questions, about the legitimacy, and the codings for the D501 models, the question
becomes: do I give up my proprietary years of research on them, to score some points on this thread, and possibly/
probably allow them to be cloned, with re-popped P/T plates, or allow them to be shunned from the listing "just because"
those data are not published (but other cars' SUB-models are recognized on the listing...)?
No thanks, keep the D501's (and the 1956 Dash-1's) off of your list.
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Location: The Mile High City | Silly me! I thought the whole purpose of this website was to share information!
Cripes! share the numbers and I will add them in. the only number I have ever seen published for D501 is 101 (sorry Neil, I'm going with that) - so how many dash-ones were made?
I guess the problem I have (or had) with this was that those numbers D500, D501, and D500-1 seem like they have to be subtracted from the Most High Exalted Official Chrysler production totals for other models! And if we do this, we really need to add back the Plymouth 6 wagons, the DeSoto 6 Taxis, the Coronet Lancer 6s...which do not have to be extracted from the Most High Exalted Official Chrysler production totals for other models.
but I can do it. just give me the dash-one numbers and it's done.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2012-02-03 4:44 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Unfortunately, the Dash-1 production numbers have never been confirmed.
They are available, for certain, in the CHS microfilm rolls, but Darrell Davis is not presently able to return to Detroit to continue his
1957 D501/1956 D-500-1 research work.
Really unfortunately, the factory, in 1956/57, confusingly referred to the various D500's/Dash-1's/D501's in their own official literature.
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Location: The Mile High City | Oh, BROTHER! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yep.
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Location: Parts Unknown | This plays in my head:
As I was going to St. Ives
I met a man with seven wives
Each wife had seven sacks
Each sack had seven cats
Each cat had seven kits
Kits, cats, sacks, wives ..
How many were going to St. Ives ?
I think the answer to this question can be found using dice. Does anyone have
God's phone number ?
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Regular
Posts: 80
Location: Golden, CO | To put a wrap on the 1956 D500 and 1957 D501 being considered models, I invite anyone to read the couple hundred pages of information I have accumulated and I am sure it will be a clear picture for the model designation. I know that as time progressed the designation was lost and where that point is...well that surely is a bit "Dicey" ....... I could see many saying no to the 1957 standard D500 and Super D500 but not D501. Tim in Golden |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 496
| I would think that the less-than-a-handful of people who own the remaining 501s, a list like this doesn't mean much. It reminds me of a nightclub owner who has a list of people on his VIP list. They leave a guy off the list, but that guy doesnt care because he owns his own nightclub down the street.
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Regular
Posts: 80
Location: Golden, CO | My concern is that we are promoting our cars by putting out lists like this and they eventually may end up in other publications. The D500 is the poster child for misinformation when it comes to the ForwardLook cars. I see the seemingly endless stream of improper clones, incorrect articles, and erroneous desriptions concerning these cars. I realize it means more to me. I work hard to report facts about the D500 and when I advance an opinion I describe it as such. I always research with diligence before contributing information as fact and I appreciate others who do so as well. There has been many factual decriptions concerning the D500 and I focus on not being too repetative. I would like to see a little help from this list by promoting the facts and disspelling the rumors whenever possible. Thanks Tim in Golden
Edited by Dash One 2012-02-09 12:03 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | I don't want to kick the hornet's nest anymore, but we probably should add the Ghias.
RAREST FORWARDLOOK PASSENGER CARS BY MODEL AND BODY STYLE
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 51
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 82
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 97
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door limousine - 127
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door convertible - 140
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door limousine - 175
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door convertible - 191
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-S : 300-F 2-door convertible - 248
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 283
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 286
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 299
1957 DeSOTO - S26A : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 300
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon - 320
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : 300-G 2-door convertible - 337
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 350
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 429
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 474
1957 CHRYSLER - C76 : 300-C 2-door convertible - 484
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 501
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 510
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 2-door convertible - 512
1958 DeSOTO - LS2-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 519
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 538
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door hardtop 550
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible 555
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 556
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 576
1959 DeSOTO - MS2-L : Firesweep 2-door convertible - 596
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 602
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door hardtop - 618
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 618
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 622
1955 DeSOTO - S22 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 625
1956 DeSOTO - S23 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 646
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 666
1958 IMPERIAL - LY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 675
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 692
1958 DeSOTO - LS1-L : Firesweep 2-door convertible - 700
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 704
1955 DeSOTO - S21 : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 775
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-L : Custom 2-door hardtop - 889
1957 IMPERIAL - IM1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 911
1961 DeSOTO - RS1-M : 2-door hardtop - 911
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 927
1955 CHRYSLER - C68 : New Yorker DeLuxe 2-door convertible - 946
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 961
1960 CHRYSLER- PC3-S : 300-F 2-door hardtop - 964
1959 DODGE - MD3-H : Custom Royal 2-door convertible - 984
1956 DeSOTO - S24 : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 996
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 999
OTHER PRODUCTION RARITIES
1955 IMPERIAL - C69 : Custom 2-door convertible - 1
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 2
1960 DODGE - PD1-L : Matador 2-door sedan - 2
1959 IMPERIAL - N/A* : Crown Ghia Limousine - 7
1961 IMPERIAL - N/A* : Crown Ghia Limousine - 9
1960 IMPERIAL - N/A* : Crown Ghia Limousine - 16
1958 IMPERIAL - N/A* : Crown Ghia Limousine - 31
1957 IMPERIAL - N/A* : Crown Ghia Limousine - 36
*vehicles were shipped to Italy as knock-down Imperial Crown 2-door hardtops, then imported to the U.S. as limousines.
RAREST STATION WAGONS BY SEAT CONFIGURATION
1961 DART - RD3/4-L : Seneca 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 68
1961 PLYMOUTH - RP1/2-L : Savoy 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 74
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 122
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 198
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 271
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 318
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 428
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 433
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 444
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 564
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 609
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 624
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 671
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 676
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 751
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 760
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 775
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 791
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 837
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 862
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 908
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 934
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 992
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 390
| 1957 DeSoto Diplomat convertibles:
Built up export LHD 43
Knock down under bond LHD 6
1957 Dodge Mayfair/Kingsway convertibles:
Built up export LHD 117
Knock down under bond LHD 16 |
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Account deactivated by owner's request
Location: On this barrel | Hey Mike, how about this for another thread ... what was the most common by the numbers, mass produced make/model/year of all the forward looks? My guess would be the 57 Plymouth Savoy 4 door ... |
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Location: The Mile High City | Chrycoman - 2010-12-30 8:51 PM
For years now I have been reading about how the D-501 was a separate line with unique BDY codes. Yet no one has actually mentioned the codes. So, to solve problem #2, below are the body styles for the Coronet and the D-501. If you could be so kind as to fill in the blanks we can end this discussion once and for all -
D66 : Coronet V8
2-door sedan - BDY : _____
4-door sedan - BDY : _____
2-door hardop - BDY : _____
4-door hardtop - BDY : _____
2-door convertible - BDY : _____
D501 : Coronet V8
2-door sedan - BDY : _____
2-door hardop - BDY : _____
2-door convertible - BDY : _____
Thank you.
Bill, I think these may be the body codes
D66 : Coronet 325 V8
2-door sedan - BDY : 2142
4-door sedan - BDY : 2145
2-door hardop - BDY : 2146
4-door hardtop - BDY : 2149
2-door convertible - BDY : 2143
D66 : Coronet 354 V8 "D501"
2-door sedan - BDY : 2442
2-door hardop - BDY : 2446
2-door convertible - BDY : 2443
D66 : Coronet 325 V8 "D500"
2-door sedan - BDY : 2542
4-door sedan - BDY : 2545
2-door hardtop - BDY : 2546
4-door hartdop - BDY : 2549
2-door convertible - BDY : 2543
For the Royal D500s, replace the third numeral 4 with a 7
For the Custom Royal D500s, replace the third numeral 4 with an 8
I believe in 1957, the BDY codes for Dodge are a four-digit sequence:
the first digit is always a "2" and represents the make: Dodge
the second digit is an engine code
the third digit is the model code
the fourth digit is a body style code
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I was not going to give up my hard earned D501 research, but, Mike is wrong about the D501 hardtop BDY coding, above.
Of the 102 D501's that were built, Corp researcher Darrell Davis has found 92 IBM cards; 23 are convertibles, 62 are sedans
and 7 are hardtops.
Three of the missing ten are otherwise documented; 2 hardtops and one sedan.
Seven cars are still to be found.
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Location: Parts Unknown | Kudos for that free and open dissemination of intel. Good for discussion. Good for historical
accuracy.
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Expert
Posts: 2633
Location: Minor Hill, TN | I would like to know how many 1961 plymouths are left today. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | How could anyone possibly know that ? You would have to peer in every last backyard, garage, barn, field,
and warehouse on the entire planet to do that. And most people who hoard these cars are not the type that
are real interested in some nosey tallyman coming around looking at their "goodies".
I have confirmed the existence of six 1958 Fireflite convertible still surviving. Instinct tells me that for every
one documented, there is probably another one still hiding in someone's basement or barn somewhere. How
can we ever know we've counted them all ?
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Location: The Mile High City | well, for letter cars - once you get up to the production total, you can stop! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Not to mention ignoring the 102 D501 (engines) that were produced.
92 cars' IBM cards have been found by Corp researcher Darrell Davis, and three additional
known-cars' IBM's have not yet been located.
That leaves 7 cars that have not been found, or documented, to date.
So, if you're "counting" Adventurer convertibles.....
9 (known) D501 hardtops
23 (known) D501 convertibles
63 (known) D501 sedans
Edited by d500neil 2013-05-05 11:05 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | Lancer Mike - 2013-05-06 6:31 PM
well, for letter cars - once you get up to the production total, you can stop! :laugh:
===================================================
I have been told by 300 Club members that for certain years, more convertibles survive today
than ever left the factory !
But how can this be, Mr. Obvious ?
Well, Timmy .... let me tell you ....
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Expert
Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | I've heard that too. But like the popular 57s for example, 484 were built, no way there's more than that or even close. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I am also recalling being told that all too many convertible letter cars mysteriously had no (or questionable)
VIN / build tags, suggesting they had once been convertibles of "another ilk". I personally knew of car guys
doing this to make 300's and Adventurers out of Fireflites, Domes, and NY'ers back in the early 80's.
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Expert
Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | Yeah, that's how they would have been came to be built, but you think including the fakes there's anywhere near 484 of them? |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Prolly not, but now that I'm thinking back on it, it was in discussing these home built cars that the
subject came up with the 300 guys years ago.
I dearly wish I had asked a friend back then if I could make copies of these weird little "magazines"
he had kept from the early 60's that were "broadcast sheets" put together by a Seattle area wrecking
yard association and distro'd to body shops and each other showing each yard's inventory. It was
disgusting. Off-the-charts dream cars just there for the picking or taking home whole. Prices were
listed for whole cars and stuff like a 300c ragtop was 2-3 hundred bucks !
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 504
| christine-lover - 2010-10-31 2:23 PM
Didn't they make 2 60 Dodge Matador 2 Door Sedans? I thought I remember reading about them, but when I searched today I could find nothing.
Here is the 60 Dodge Matador Prototype inside Highland Park
 (Matador-2-door-sedan.jpg)
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Location: Parts Unknown | These are covered on the list under "special production" numbers. This was not an "available" car.
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Location: The Mile High City | Can anyone verify the number of Adventurer hardtops built in 1959? How Stuff Works and Wikipedia seem to indicate that 590 were produced and the list we generated shows 602.
RAREST FORWARDLOOK PASSENGER CARS BY MODEL AND BODY STYLE
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 51
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 82
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 97
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door limousine - 127
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door convertible - 140
1956 IMPERIAL - C70* : Crown 4-door limousine - 175
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door convertible - 191
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-S : 300-F 2-door convertible - 248
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 283
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 286
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 299
1957 DeSOTO - S26A : Adventurer 2-door convertible - 300
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon - 320
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : 300-G 2-door convertible - 337
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-S : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 350
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 429
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 474
1957 CHRYSLER - C76 : 300-C 2-door convertible - 484
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 501
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 510
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 2-door convertible - 512
1958 DeSOTO - LS2-M : Firedome 2-door convertible - 519
1958 IMPERIAL - LY-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 538
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-P : 300-E 2-door hardtop 550
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible 555
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 556
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 576
1959 DeSOTO - MS2-L : Firesweep 2-door convertible - 596
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-P : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 602
1958 CHRYSLER - LC4-H : 300-D 2-door hardtop - 618
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 618
1959 IMPERIAL - MY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 622
1955 DeSOTO - S22 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 625
1956 DeSOTO - S23 : Firedome 2-door convertible - 646
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 2-door convertible - 666
1958 IMPERIAL - LY1-M : Crown 2-door convertible - 675
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door sedan - 692
1958 DeSOTO - LS1-L : Firesweep 2-door convertible - 700
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 704
1955 DeSOTO - S21 : Fireflite 2-door convertible - 775
1961 IMPERIAL - RY1-L : Custom 2-door hardtop - 889
1957 IMPERIAL - IM1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 911
1961 DeSOTO - RS1-M : 2-door hardtop - 911
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon - 927
1955 CHRYSLER - C68 : New Yorker DeLuxe 2-door convertible - 946
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 961
1960 CHRYSLER- PC3-S : 300-F 2-door hardtop - 964
1959 DODGE - MD3-H : Custom Royal 2-door convertible - 984
1956 DeSOTO - S24 : Adventurer 2-door hardtop - 996
1960 IMPERIAL - PY1-H : LeBaron 4-door hardtop - 999
OTHER PRODUCTION RARITIES
1955 IMPERIAL - C69 : Custom 2-door convertible - 1
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 2-door convertible - 2
1960 DODGE - PD1-L : Matador 2-door sedan - 2
1959 IMPERIAL - N/A* : Crown Ghia Limousine - 7
1961 IMPERIAL - N/A* : Crown Ghia Limousine - 9
1960 IMPERIAL - N/A* : Crown Ghia Limousine - 16
1958 IMPERIAL - N/A* : Crown Ghia Limousine - 31
1957 IMPERIAL - N/A* : Crown Ghia Limousine - 36
*vehicles were shipped to Italy as knock-down Imperial Crown 2-door hardtops, then imported to the U.S. as limousines.
RAREST STATION WAGONS BY SEAT CONFIGURATION
1961 DART - RD3/4-L : Seneca 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 68
1961 PLYMOUTH - RP1/2-L : Savoy 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 74
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 122
1960 DART - PD3-4/H : Phoenix 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 198
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 271
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 318
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 428
1959 DeSOTO - MS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 433
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 444
1959 CHRYSLER - MC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 564
1958 DeSOTO - LS3-H : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 609
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 624
1960 CHRYSLER - PC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 671
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 676
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 751
1961 CHRYSLER - RC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 760
1958 CHRYSLER - LC3-H : New Yorker 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 775
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 791
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 837
1958 CHRYSLER - LC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 862
1961 DODGE - RD1-L : Polara 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 908
1957 DeSOTO - S26 : Fireflite 4-door wagon, 3-seat - 934
1959 CHRYSLER - MC1-L : Windsor 4-door wagon, 2-seat - 992
Edited by Lancer Mike 2013-10-15 11:08 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | In his Collectible Automobile article "Something in the Air: The Story of the 1957 - 1959 Desoto" (Volume 31, Number 1) David Duricy shows production numbers for the 1959 De Soto. He cites the Encyclopedia of American Cars 2006. His 1959 production numbers are as follows: 1959 Firesweep convertible: 596 (match) 1959 Firedome convertible: 299 (match) 1959 Fireflite convertible: 186 (ours shows 283!) 1959 Fireflite four door wagon: 704 (match, both in total production and by seat configuration) 1959 Adventurer 2-door hardtop: 590 (ours shows 602 - this was the question asked 10/15/13 - at least we know what the source was) 1959 Adventurer convertible: 97 (match) all 1957 and 1958 numbers match. I'll have to see what Bill's source was for the 1959 numbers. |
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Posts: 85
| where can I find how many 1956 custom royal convertibles were produced? one had mentioned 1370 but I would like to find how this number was found
Edited by MikeDIsIn 2015-11-01 7:22 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | Most of Dodge's production totals were destroyed. I am unaware of any hard number
being known for your 56 CR ragtop. In the big picture, Dodge did not make a lot of them,
as compared to Ford and Chev convertibles.
What I can tell you is that very few survive. I would be surprised to hear that over two
dozen are known. Probably closer to one dozen. Not sure why that is. They were well
built, compared to the 57-and-later cars. I have been doing this fin car thing for nearly
40 years, and have only known of a handful still around in all that time.
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Location: Vancouver, BC | Lancer Mike - 2014-11-25 4:31 PM
In his Collectible Automobile article "Something in the Air: The Story of the 1957 - 1959 Desoto" (Volume 31, Number 1) David Duricy shows production numbers for the 1959 De Soto. He cites the Encyclopedia of American Cars 2006. His 1959 production numbers are as follows: 1959 Firesweep convertible: 596 (match) 1959 Firedome convertible: 299 (match) 1959 Fireflite convertible: 186 (ours shows 283!) 1959 Fireflite four door wagon: 704 (match, both in total production and by seat configuration) 1959 Adventurer 2-door hardtop: 590 (ours shows 602 - this was the question asked 10/15/13 - at least we know what the source was) 1959 Adventurer convertible: 97 (match) all 1957 and 1958 numbers match. I'll have to see what Bill's source was for the 1959 numbers.
The Adventurer and Fireflite numbers were from a letter a member in the DeSoto club received from Chrysler Historical regarding 1959 DeSoto production. Apparently, the numbers going around were from Don Butler and his book, The Plymouth-DeSoto Story. Somehow or another Mr. Butler came up with a total number of F-A hardtops and convertibles and then found numbers on Adventurer production. His book has the Fireflite convertible production numbers as 186, which is the total number of Fireflite convertibles less the Adventurer numbers. Nobody knows just where his numbers came from, but the "official" CHS numbers were -
Fireflite 2 door hardtop - 1,983
Fireflite 2 door convertible - 283
Adventurer 2 door hardtop - 602
Adventurer 2 door convertible - 97
For the convertibles - 186 + 97 = 283
Can't find the letter at the present time, but it also had the Canadian production numbers -
Firedome 4 door sedan - 612
Firedome 2 door hardtop - 282
Firedome 4 door hardtop - 233
Firedome 2 door convertible - 0
Which means the American production of Firedome models was -
Firedome 4 door sedan - 8,359
Firedome 2 door hardtop - 2,580
Firedome 4 door hardtop - 2,511
Firedome 2 door convertible - 299
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC |
Dodge production numbers are out there. The problem is that Don Butler was digging up Chrysler Corporation production numbers for his book on Plymouth and DeSoto and was also digging up Dodge numbers. Both Thomas McPherson (The Dodge Story) and Jerry Heasley (The Production Figure Book for U.S. Cars) published Dodge figures up to 1955, which seems where Don Butler was in his research. Mr. Butler's book came out a couple years later.
Mr. McPherson had Canadian numbers in his book, but they do not balance with anything else. I suspect he had shipping figures which are generally calendar year numbers with all cars shipped that year. For example, the 1933 Dodge DQ was built through to November, 1933, but he mentions one Dodge DQ in his 1934 figures. It would make sense if his figures were shipment totals as Chrysler of Canada could have had one left over 1933 DQ that was not shipped until after January 1, 1934. Would love to see the figures he was working with.
Anyway, the total number of 1956 Dodge Custom Royal convertibles built was 1,378.
Collectible Automobile has been working with Chrysler Historical in getting the Dodge numbers sorted out. They have come up with Royal/Custom Royal from 1954 to 1959, Coronet/Royal/Custom Royal 1957 to 1959, Matador/Polara 1960-1961, Dart 1960-1961, and B body 1962-1964 (which also has Canadian numbers).
I also have 1961-1962 Lancer and 1963-1964 Dart, plus 1965 and up B body. Also, have a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy of a series of reports on cars built for the U.S. market from American and Canadian plants for the 1965 to 1973 model years. Sadly, I do not have the Canadian market report.
Guess what I should do is come up with production reports for the years 1955 to 1961 and post them somewhere for future use. I can do some of the years with Canadian and American production. Once the CHS is open for business in November I will write them and see if I can plug the holes in my data for Canadian production.
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Location: Montreal, Canada | I just noticed this:
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
I think there is one of them for sale right here in Quebec these days. I'll try and dig out the ad, and post it here, if anyone is interested in what could be a rarest of the rare!.. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Good intel, Bill.
I remember discussion here about destroyed records ... what wires do I have
crossed on this ??? I thought it involved you and Neil and a few others (?)
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Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | hemiviper588 - 2013-10-02 11:40 AM christine-lover - 2010-10-31 2:23 PM Didn't they make 2 60 Dodge Matador 2 Door Sedans? I thought I remember reading about them, but when I searched today I could find nothing. Here is the 60 Dodge Matador Prototype inside Highland Park It's hard to be sure but to me that looks more like a hardtop (no B pillar) then a sedan. |
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Posts: 7400
Location: northern germany | jimntempe - 2015-11-02 1:11 PM
hemiviper588 - 2013-10-02 11:40 AM christine-lover - 2010-10-31 2:23 PM Didn't they make 2 60 Dodge Matador 2 Door Sedans? I thought I remember reading about them, but when I searched today I could find nothing. Here is the 60 Dodge Matador Prototype inside Highland Park It's hard to be sure but to me that looks more like a hardtop (no B pillar) then a sedan.
thats the sedan roof so its gotta be a sedan. |
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Location: Montreal, Canada | soiouz - 2015-11-02 8:28 AM
I just noticed this:
1955 IMPERIAL - C70 : Crown 4-door sedan, 9-pass - 45
I think there is one of them for sale right here in Quebec these days. I'll try and dig out the ad, and post it here, if anyone is interested in what could be a rarest of the rare!..
Ad says Its a 56, but the rear looks like a 55 to me.. I dont know, but still very rare!
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Location: The Mile High City | Chrycoman - 2015-11-01 10:04 PM
Nobody knows just where his numbers came from, but the "official" CHS numbers were -
Fireflite 2 door hardtop - 1,983
Fireflite 2 door convertible - 283
Adventurer 2 door hardtop - 602
Adventurer 2 door convertible - 97
For the convertibles - 186 + 97 = 283
Good, Bill. Thanks. We will stick with the numbers we have.
Neat looking Imperial! I don't know what the difference is between the C70 nine passenger sedan and the C70 limousine.
Is it the rearward most side window?
Edited by Lancer Mike 2015-11-02 6:33 PM
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Location: Montreal, Canada | Lancer Mike - 2015-11-02 6:25 PM
Chrycoman - 2015-11-01 10:04 PM
Nobody knows just where his numbers came from, but the "official" CHS numbers were -
Fireflite 2 door hardtop - 1,983
Fireflite 2 door convertible - 283
Adventurer 2 door hardtop - 602
Adventurer 2 door convertible - 97
For the convertibles - 186 + 97 = 283
Good, Bill. Thanks. We will stick with the numbers we have.
Neat looking Imperial! I don't know what the difference is between the C70 nine passenger sedan and the C70 limousine.
Is it the rearward most side window?
I have to say, I have no idea either! |
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Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | The Crown Imperial is a 1956 model. Check the front headlamp rims.
Also, for the rear quarter panel - note the added on fin. The rear quarter panels were unique to that body style and, given the low production numbers, Chrysler believed it was not a viable idea to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to revise the panel. Instead, they forked out the dollars to tool up an add-on fin instead.
Originally, DeSoto was to use that same body for the LWB taxis as they had since 1936. But New York City decided they did not want LWB cabs cruising the streets and changed their standards to accept normal cars. Thus Plymouth took over the DeSoto cab business. I have the October, 1954, issue of the Canadian edition of the "Model Chart and Serial Number Guide" which has the 1955 model starting serial numbers. The LWB DeSoto S22 Taxi serial numbers were to start at 5,130,001. Cannot find any further details on the model. Would like to know just how far along Chrysler was with the LWB DeSoto Taxi when the plug was pulled.
The difference between a sedan and a limousine was the partition behind the front seat on the limousine models. It divided the front area from the rear and had a roll down window. Quite often the driver's seat was non-adjustable and done in leather. Also, limousines generally came with three keys - one for the front doors and ignition, second for the glove box and trunk, and the third for the rear doors. There should be key locks on the exterior of the read doors on the limousine.
This one looks to have key locks on the rear doors, just below below the door handle. If so, it is a limousine.
Edited by Chrycoman 2015-11-02 9:22 PM
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Location: Montreal, Canada | Chrycoman - 2015-11-02 9:17 PM
The Crown Imperial is a 1956 model. Check the front headlamp rims.
Also, for the rear quarter panel - note the added on fin. The rear quarter panels were unique to that body style and, given the low production numbers, Chrysler believed it was not a viable idea to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to revise the panel. Instead, they forked out the dollars to tool up an add-on fin instead.
Originally, DeSoto was to use that same body for the LWB taxis as they had since 1936. But New York City decided they did not want LWB cabs cruising the streets and changed their standards to accept normal cars. Thus Plymouth took over the DeSoto cab business. I have the October, 1954, issue of the Canadian edition of the "Model Chart and Serial Number Guide" which has the 1955 model starting serial numbers. The LWB DeSoto S22 Taxi serial numbers were to start at 5,130,001. Cannot find any further details on the model. Would like to know just how far along Chrysler was with the LWB DeSoto Taxi when the plug was pulled.
The difference between a sedan and a limousine was the partition behind the front seat on the limousine models. It divided the front area from the rear and had a roll down window. Quite often the driver's seat was non-adjustable and done in leather. Also, limousines generally came with three keys - one for the front doors and ignition, second for the glove box and trunk, and the third for the rear doors. There should be key locks on the exterior of the read doors on the limousine.
This one looks to have key locks on the rear doors, just below below the door handle. If so, it is a limousine.
Thanks for that info, Bill. That's fascinating!
So that car available now in Quebec, is a 56 Imperial Crown limousine, production : 175? That is really something! |
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Location: DFW, TX | Chrycoman - 2015-11-02 8:17 PM
The Crown Imperial is a 1956 model. Check the front headlamp rims.
Also, for the rear quarter panel - note the added on fin. The rear quarter panels were unique to that body style and, given the low production numbers, Chrysler believed it was not a viable idea to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to revise the panel. Instead, they forked out the dollars to tool up an add-on fin instead.
This car also uses the 1955 front fender opening and trim.
Here is a restored car: http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1956/56Limo/
Edited by 57burb 2015-11-03 2:11 AM
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Location: Vancouver, BC | Doctor DeSoto - 2015-11-02 10:16 AM
Good intel, Bill.
I remember discussion here about destroyed records ... what wires do I have
crossed on this ??? I thought it involved you and Neil and a few others (?)
No, you are remembering correctly. We were trying to figure out why there were no published Dodge production figures after 1955 and through to the early 1970's. Also, the DeSoto and Dodge figures from CHS had two figures for some models and the body styles.
The second part was explained on the sheets by CHS as being exported cars while I was certain the figures were for Canadian production, as in all cases those models were built in Canada, and only those models. The sheet for the 1957 DeSoto had no 'export' figures, and no 1957 DeSotos were built in Canada.
Don't think anything was resolved about 1956-1970 Dodge figures, although sheets provided by CHS to some people who owned 1957-1960 Dodges and requested IBM build record information were brought forward and we were able to expand our knowledge of how many Dodge cars were built for the 1957 to 1960 period. Would like to get a copy of the 1961 report, if anyone has it, to complete the set.
Anyway, these reports from CHS were no longer being sent to purchasers of the IBM build records, and it appeared that all copies of these reports were no longer available.
Thus the possibility of destroyed records.
As I mentioned earlier, Collectible Automobile has been publishing information from CHS which has expanded the production information. However, there still are some blank spots for CA, in particular the 1965-66 Dodge Dart and 1965-71 Dodge Polara/Monaco. The 1965-66 Darts were built and sold in Canada as Valiant 200 models (not Plymouth Valiant as they were sold by both Dodge and Plymouth dealers). Don Butler noted the Canadian Valiant 200 series in his book, and mentioned the production figures for the Canadian-built Custom 100 (Valiant V-200) and Custom 200 (Dart 270) hardtops, if I recall.
The Polara/Monaco situation is a mess unto itself. The American Polara was priced to do battle with the Fury III and Pontiac Catalina. In Canada the Monaco was priced with the Fury III (even used Fury III interiors) while the base Polara was priced with the Fury I. The Fury II-based Canadian Dodge was the Polara 440 (1965-66) and Polara 500 (1967-69), and thus the Polara 500 figures should show a sedan and two wagons, models not sold in the US. Also, Canada had a Monaco convertible from 1965 to 1969 and a Monaco 500 from 1967 to 1969. No Monaco convertibles in the US.
Some reports show that the 1965 Polara had 17,505 cars built, but the Mopar report I have on cars built for the US market show 86,643 1965 Polara cars built plus 599 export. The 17,505 turns out to be for the Canadian 1965 Dodge Polara 440 (think Fury II). There was no US Dodge equivalent in 1965 as the Polara 500 was an option package (sales code 325).
I'm sure the figures are there, just have to know what you are dealing with.
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Location: The Mile High City |
This is still perplexing me. Bill originally had the 1955 Imperial convertible on his list with the production number of 1 unit. It seems like the KT Keller car listed in the article is the one. Others may have been made, but the factory made the original prototype. If this is not true, we should remove it from the list.
Recently, a 1956 Imperial convertible has been listed for sale and the claim is that it is one of three built by the factory. If that is true, we should put it on the list under other production rarities.
Thoughts? |
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC |
The one 1955 Imperial convertible was a one-off for the Chairman of the Board of the Chrysler Corporation at the time - Kaufman Thuma Keller. It was not a prototype, nor an example of what Chrysler would or could do. The car was a custom job, done by workers at the Chrysler Corporation as opposed to by workers at Henney, Bentley-Mitchell, Ghia, etc., with no plans of any further examples.
Any other convertibles in existence were custom jobs done on production cars after the cars had left the factory. The three 1956 Imperial convertibles were not factory jobs as they did not leave the factory assembly line as Imperials. They were either Windsor and/or New Yorker convertibles modified to look like Imperials. The front end was no problem as the Chrysler 300 used the Imperial grille thus the Imperial face could be applied to any Windsor or New Yorker. Or DeSoto for that matter. Just have to add the various trim items, bumper, etc. from an Imperial. At the other end modify the filler caps, taillights, etc. used on the Imperial to fit the 1956 Chrysler fin. Same with the Imperial side trim - modify to fit. But at no time should any of these vehicles even be considered Imperials.
The lists of cars produced by Chrysler and Imperial originated with Chrysler Historical Services. The information from CHS shows ONE Imperial convertible - the custom job for K.T. Keller. There are no 1956 Imperial convertibles listed. No other Imperials should be added to the list nor should the one listed be removed.
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Location: So. Cal | If this is true, then the titles/VIN numbers to these 3 cars should reflect the fact that it is really a Windsor or New Yorker. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Thanks, Bill - that clears it up for me!
Yes, the seller of the car currently for sale should show the VIN/data plate on that one!
Edited by Lancer Mike 2016-12-28 12:31 PM
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Posts: 2633
Location: Minor Hill, TN | I was wondering. How many 1961 plymouth fury 2drhts are left today |
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Location: Parts Unknown | 2,931 |
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Posts: 531
Location: Park Hills, KY | .3 |
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Location: Parts Unknown | eleventy-twelve-seventy ?
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Posts: 1357
Location: Iowa USA | Not sure how many were made? I know of one that still survives.
1956 Australian production sedan delivery.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1172
Location: Georgia | Now THAT's a rare one! I like the little louvers on the sides. What a cool car.
Pete |
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Posts: 2788
Location: USA - KY |
I agree, Pete; that sedan delivery car is great!
And it seems that Virgil Exner's ghost agrees!
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