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Veteran
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Location: 33844 | Hi all. Has anyone added fluid cooling to an air-cooled TF trans ?? |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | Richbo - 2014-03-04 12:30 PM
Hi all. Has anyone added fluid cooling to an air-cooled TF trans ??
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Funny you should ask as I was just researching through the forum on my night shifts a few days back about convertors/torqueflites/powerflites/bellhousings etc etc etc and found the answer to your question in one of Neils posts where he uses an air cooled convertor in a water cooled transmission in his car ( I think ???? ) .
I'll see if I can find it for you ??
...
Edited by VAN HELSING 2014-03-04 12:34 AM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Melbourne, Australia | From memory, the hydraulic passages are not drilled in a 57 trans.....I've only seen two of them and they were both the same... Colin |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 982
Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | ........
This isn't the bit I was looking for regarding Neil's air cooled convertor but there are some answers among this link to help with your question
Lookey here :-
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=39185&...
Hope this helps......
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Edited by VAN HELSING 2014-03-04 12:35 AM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | ..........
Here is a link to my post about my 413 big block and there are some pics of a torqueflite that was sold to me without a convertor and bellhousing and you can see in the pics showing where the shifter cable fits into the trans that there are two screw in plugs in the trans case where there would normally be cooling line connections so I'm assuming/guessing that this TF of mine was/is an air cooled convertor type ????
Lookey here :-
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=44909&...
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Edited by VAN HELSING 2014-03-04 12:40 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 242
Location: 33844 | On close inspection, the lube pressure plug is there on the air-cooled trans, but the lube supply plug is NOT there. These are used on a fluid-cooled trans. Perhaps the cast-boss couldbe drilled and tapped !!??? |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | .......
Sorry Rich, I think I misread your post, I thought you wanted an air cooled cooled convertor in a water cooled trans, my bad, I think there was mention of drilling the bosses on here in the air cooled trans to allow water cooling but not sure where/when.
It would have been asked/done before I'm sure.
I'm sure someone knowledgeable will chip in on it and tell you what you need to know.
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | ........
So your trans hasn't got those 2 plugs near where the shift cable goes like in that photo of mine up above ??
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Veteran
Posts: 242
Location: 33844 | My trans is just like the one in your pix --- the lube supply plug area is blank -- you can see where the plug would be just above the lube pressure plug. The plug right next to the cable is the line pressure plug.
So the trans cooler needs to go between the lube pressure and lube supply ports. If I add a cooler to the pressure port and just return anywhere else in the trans then it would not be getting its lube !!!
Edited by Richbo 2014-03-04 2:07 AM
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Expert
Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | My '57 air cooled trans has a very interesting 'loop' on the cooler line ports. I assume you could replace the loop with cooler lines and be off and running. |
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Veteran
Posts: 242
Location: 33844 | Double cooling would be a good thing here in Fla. I wish mine had that external tube. It might be a fluid-cooled converted to air-cooled.
Edited by Richbo 2014-03-04 11:52 AM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Upstate NY | I never realized that the air cooled had issues. They must have because they switched the next year to liquid cooled. I have never had a problem but I am also up north. So what happens in Florida when the fluid gets hot , obviously pressures drop and clutches slip? |
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Veteran
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Location: 33844 | I only recently (2 weeks) put the mid-size DeSoto 341 hemi with air-cooled trans into my Christine , so I have not driven her in hot weather yet , so I do not know if I even have any concerns !! If it were easy I would add the trans cooler that I already have. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The air cooled transmission is fine, all by itself.
The liquid cooled trannie tends to run cooler than the air cooled guy (and be sure to clean off the torque converter cooling
screens on the transmission).
If you run a liquid cooled transmission, you can get even better cooling by installing an air cooled torque converter in it (which
will have a series of cooling 'ears' around its perimeter).
And, using a PowerFlite air cooled T/Q will give you about 200RPM more stall speed than will the TorqueFlite (because the PF
doesn't have a 1st gear in it, so, its higher stall speed will allow for faster acceleration).
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Expert
Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | You'd probably have to use the 'air cooled' bellhousing to get any benefit from using an air cooled TC. Otherwise the fins air just beating up the air with no real flow. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Good point!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 982
Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | ..........
Rich,
Thanks to Phil ( Phil the Frenchie ) my TF has been ID'd as an early '57 Air cooled trans so I'm in the same boat as you, I need and air cooled convertor and air cooled bell housing and/or need to find some way to plumb an extra supply line in so I can use a water cooled trans type convertor.
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Expert
Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | Here is the loop on my '57 Desoto trans. It looks like a factory made piece IMO.
 (cooler line loop.jpg)
Attachments
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 cooler line loop.jpg (128KB - 76 downloads)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 537
Location: Upstate NY | My air cooled has removable plugs at those points. It probably was an earlier model. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 982
Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | GregCon - 2014-03-06 3:42 AM
Here is the loop on my '57 Desoto trans. It looks like a factory made piece IMO.
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Thanks for taking the time to post those pics Greg.
Yes, that does look too professional looking for a home made loop there, and it's in the same holes that mine and Rich's trans have those two plugs.
When I unscrewed my top plug fluid leaked out but when I unscrewed the bottom plug it was dry and looked like it had been dry a while.
Methinks I'll see if I can find a hydraulic flow chart/schematic diagram and see if I can find where those two plugs go to, I'll keep you in "the loop "( pardon the pun ) Rich if you want with whatever I can find.
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Expert
Posts: 4533
Location: Ripon, WI | Post pics of the bottom hole. You sure it just isn't blocked with crud? Try sticking a screwdriver into it. They wouldn't put a plug if wasn't drilled. |
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Expert
Posts: 3780
Location: NorCal | GregCon - 2014-03-05 8:42 AM
Here is the loop on my '57 Desoto trans. It looks like a factory made piece IMO.
The '57 Chrysler FSM (page 280) shows a similar looped line. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 982
Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | safetymike77 - 2014-03-07 2:19 AM
Post pics of the bottom hole. You sure it just isn't blocked with crud? Try sticking a screwdriver into it. They wouldn't put a plug if wasn't drilled.
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I'll tip the trans on it's side and take a closer look at the bottom plug later today but in the mean time if you scroll down 9 pics here
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=44909&...
You can see the plug I'm talking about which is the lower of the two plugs in the pic.
I've got one of those bore inspection cameras here, I'll see if it will fit but I think it's diameter is too large ??
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | GregCon - 2014-03-06 3:42 AM
Here is the loop on my '57 Desoto trans. It looks like a factory made piece IMO.
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Just had a look at the FSM for '57 on page 280 it seems to show the same setup as Gregs in the pic Greg supplied however having another look at my trans it doesn't have that top plug that can be seen in Gregs pic and also seen on page 280 of the FSM..
You can see the 3 plugs in Gregs pic ( and in figure 40 in the '57 FSM ).
Top one has the top end of the pipe to it.
Middle plug has the other end of this pipe to it.
Third plug ( not piped ) can be seen in Gregs pic down on the trans case near the shift cable aluminum housing, partly covered in some oily gunk .
So basically Gregs has three plugs ( top and middle are piped ) and my trans has only the middle and lower one. There isn't a third one at the top though there is a boss in the caseing for one by the look of it.
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I was talking to another FL fellow on the phone yesterday who remembered one of these iron trans as having a cooling line connection coming from a connection near the rear of the cast iron housing.
Guess this might have been the trans he was thinking of ??
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Powerflite-Transmission-1824492-From-...
You can see a connection at the front of the case and one at the rear , I'm guessing around the rear pump ?
This trans is powerflite.
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Edited by VAN HELSING 2014-03-06 10:11 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 242
Location: 33844 | Correct -- our air cooled trans's (?) do not have the top plug -- which would be the return for the fluid to supply cooled lube for the trans.
I will leave mine as-is and let the fins do the job , after all I will not be drag-racing . |
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Veteran
Posts: 242
Location: 33844 | Heck -- I have a lazer temp reader I can shoot at my trans pan and converter to see exactly what the temp is !!! After I drive a bunch I'll try to remember to check it !!! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 468
Location: Cushing, Wisconsin | Is it possible in 1957 the cars that were equipped with the "optional" Torqueflite got the air cooled and the "standard" Torqueflite cars liquid cooled? I am having my 57 Chrysler Windsor's optional TF rebuilt as follows...guts into a liquid cooled case, air cooled powerflite torque converter and air cooled bell housing. I am going to run cooling lines from trans to an inline magnefine filter before going to a heavy duty external cooler by or in front of the radiator then back to the trans. Tossed around the idea of another magnefine filter after the cooler as well to keep the fluid clean coming out and clean going back in but think it may be overkill? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8445
Location: Perth Australia | No moving or wearing parts in the cooler, so yeah, the secong filter would be not much more than an unnesseary restriction
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I've been PM'ing Justin; yeah, no need for any (other) trannie fluid filter; the fluid is basically in a sealed system (except for the filler tube,
which has a 'cap' on its dipstick) and flows freely.
Most trannie fluid checks are for general fill-level and for quality color/odor (burning; in which case...problems have already occurred...)
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Veteran
Posts: 242
Location: 33844 | Food for thought --- in the cold of winter the fluid system would then be a trans WARMER !!! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 500
Location: Upper East Tennessee | GregCon - 2014-03-05 11:42 AM
Here is the loop on my '57 Desoto trans. It looks like a factory made piece IMO.
My '57 DeSoto has this loop as well. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 500
Location: Upper East Tennessee | tnlowrider - 2014-05-13 12:39 PM
GregCon - 2014-03-05 11:42 AM
Here is the loop on my '57 Desoto trans. It looks like a factory made piece IMO.
My '57 DeSoto has this loop as well.
I connected it to a cooler on the advice of a long time Chrysler transmission expert. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 468
Location: Cushing, Wisconsin | Trans is in, just need to attach shift cable, linkage. Bend and run cooling lines mount filter. Fill'r up, Check line pressure and test drive. Off topic: goin to exhaust shop Friday... By the recommendations and videos on YouTube personal preference was to get the long dynomax super turbo "hemi" mufflers going with 2.5" front to back with an H pipe. Thanks for the help everyone and especially safetymike 77 for the rebuild and construction of this transmission.
Edited by 57windycoupe 2014-05-25 9:59 PM
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Air cooled TF to fluid cooled !!??
