|
Just back from Reno and 35 Lettered Chryslers in convention.
WOW!
I was a Chrysler/Plymouth/Imperial District Manager for Chrysler from
'65 till '69. The factory reason for the change from push buttons to
standard plans had much less to do with push buttons as it did with the entire
master plan for building cars and trucks. I was led to believe that
Chrysler top execs wanted "me-too" cars rather than "wow-look-at-me"
vehicles. The radically different cars of the past ten years were too much
of a gamble of Chrysler's limited resources to risk at a throw of the
dice. No more square steering wheels, no Flight-Swept decks, no split
headlights like the Polara 500's, nor Imperial standalones. Seemed to sell
cars as planned so perhaps they knew what they were doing. We had almost a
19 percent of the market in the late 60's. Wouldn't they be delighted to
have that number today?
In a message dated 6/6/2008 9:01:09 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
LISTSERV@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008
21:40:48 -0700
From: Dave Homstad
<dhomstad@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Push Button
Tranny
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bill,
The Gov't wanted the shifting mechanism to operate like all the
others. Some people were making mistakes with unfamiliar mechanisms and
patterns, causing accidents or damage to the drive train.
Dave
Homstad
56 Dodge D500
---- Bill Amberger
<Magnumguy@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I was told/heard that the Gov't.
told Chrysler to make their cars operate like all others, so no pushbuttons.
But, weren't pushbuttons used on the heater controls w/o complaint?
>
>
> Bill The Magnumguy
>
> Romans 8:28-29
>
http://www.mopowerstyle.net
> Chapel & Magnum/Cordoba Forums
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gary Runkel
> To:
L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008
9:06 PM
> Subject: [FWDLK] Push Button Tranny
>
>
> Does anyone know the REAL reason Chrysler
stopped using the pushbutton trans controls after the 1964 model year? Some
people have told me it was because they wanted to be more conventional to the
public. Others have even said there too many complaints from women breaking
their nails when trying to push the buttons.
>
> I'm
hoping to hear from people who were employed by Chrysler or Ross Roy in that
era that were in a position to KNOW the reason(s).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gary Runkel
>
> Canton, MI
>
>
>
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Date:
Thu, 5 Jun 2008 22:40:44 -0700
From: John McCann
<jmccann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Push Button
Tranny
MIME-Version: 1.0
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That reminds me of the old joke about putting her in L for
leap, then D for
drag but when I put her in R for racing the transmission
blew up.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Homstad"
<dhomstad@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To:
<L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 9:40
PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] Push Button Tranny
>
Bill,
>
> The Gov't wanted the shifting mechanism to operate like
all the others.
> Some people were making mistakes with unfamiliar
mechanisms and patterns,
> causing accidents or damage to the drive
train.
>
> Dave Homstad
> 56 Dodge D500
>
> ----
Bill Amberger <Magnumguy@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> I was
told/heard that the Gov't. told Chrysler to make their cars operate
>> like all others, so no pushbuttons. But, weren't pushbuttons used
on the
>> heater controls w/o
complaint?
>>
>>
>> Bill The
Magnumguy
>>
>> Romans 8:28-29
>>
http://www.mopowerstyle.net
>> Chapel & Magnum/Cordoba
Forums
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
Original Message -----
>> From: Gary
Runkel
>> To:
L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Thursday, June 05,
2008 9:06 PM
>> Subject: [FWDLK] Push Button
Tranny
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know the
REAL reason Chrysler stopped using the pushbutton
>> trans controls
after the 1964 model year? Some people have told me it was
>>
because they wanted to be more conventional to the public. Others have
>> even said there too many complaints from women breaking their
nails when
>> trying to push the
buttons.
>>
>> I'm hoping to hear from people
who were employed by Chrysler or Ross
>> Roy in that era that were
in a position to KNOW the reason(s).
>>
>>
Thanks,
>>
>> Gary
Runkel
>>
>> Canton,
MI
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Date:
Thu, 5 Jun 2008 22:42:56 -0700
From: Bill Watson
<wwatson6@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Push Button Tranny
MIME-Version:
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Whatever
the reason, it was NOT the American federal government and some
law/rule/regulation they passed. In 1964 Washington had no power to
pass
any law/rule/regulation concerning automobiles. At that time
only the
states had the power over those issues.
The National
Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act and the Highway Safety Act
were
enacted in 1966, the same year the Department of Transportation was
formed. And that gave the federal government the power to
establish rules
and regulations concerning auto standards. The first
standards enacted
under the NTMVSA did not come into effect until January
1, 1968.
As for the PRND21 issue, except for the park lever, that was
the order of
the Mopar buttons since 1960. And the PNDLR and PND21R
layouts were still
used on cars and trucks after 1965.
Corvairs and Dodge trucks continued to
use dash-mounted levers.
And
pushbutton-operated transmissions exist to this day. Check out the
buttons on any transit bus these days. And the buttons on
those units are
forward, neutral and reverse. There are two buttons,
'up' and 'down', to
choose how high a gear you want the transmission to
shift (many are 6-speed
trannies).
If you read the intro material
for the 1965 models published in the late
summer of 1964, the reason given
was the resistance to the buttons by
non-Mopar owners. No
mention of any government rules or regulations,
basically due to the fact
no government rules or regulations existed.
Actually there was no mention
of government safety regulations until 1968.
Bill
Vancouver,
BC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Homstad"
<dhomstad@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To:
<L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 7:24
PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] Push Button Tranny
>
Gary,
>
> I heard the federal government passed regulations to
standardize the shift
> pattern for safety reasons. 1964 was the last
year for many GM cars thta
> used the PND21R pattern, which was
replaced by the current PRND21 pattern.
>
> Dave Homstad
>
56 Dodge D500
>
> ---- Gary Runkel <moparfan@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>> Does anyone know the REAL reason Chrysler stopped using the
pushbutton
>> trans controls after the 1964 model year? Some people
have told me it was
>> because they wanted to be more conventional
to the public. Others have
>> even said there too many complaints
from women breaking their nails when
>> trying to push the
buttons.
>>
>> I'm hoping to hear from people who were
employed by Chrysler or Ross Roy
>> in that era that were in a
position to KNOW the reason(s).
>>
>>
Thanks,
>>
>> Gary Runkel
>>
>> Canton,
MI
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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Date:
Fri, 6 Jun 2008 04:00:01 -0400
From: Douglas Sylvester
<DSylvester@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Out of office Doug Sylvester/Adcole
is out of the office.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=US-ASCII
I will be out of the office starting
06/05/2008 and will not return until
06/17/2008.
I will respond to
your message when I
return.
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Date:
Fri, 6 Jun 2008 09:08:10 -0500
From: debenson2
<debensonii@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Push Button
Tranny
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005A_01C8C7B4.D7B47DF0"
It cost $4.00 less to go to the
standard column shift, and that is a lot of coin...
No government issues.
Gus Benson road2recovery Box 43873 Brooklyn Park, Minnesota
55443 USA debensonii@xxxxxxxxxxx763/493/2411 763/438/6671
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 9:06
PM
Subject: [FWDLK] Push Button
Tranny
Does anyone know the REAL reason Chrysler stopped using the
pushbutton trans controls after the 1964 model year? Some people have told
me it was because they wanted to be more conventional to the public. Others
have even said there too many complaints from women breaking their nails
when trying to push the buttons.
I'm hoping to hear from people who were employed by Chrysler
or Ross Roy in that era that were in a position to KNOW the
reason(s).
Thanks,
Gary Runkel
Canton, MI
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 12:48:15
-0700
From: Eastern Sierra Adjustment Services
<esierraadj@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Pushing my buttons
!
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dave/Bill/List, the "answer" (or, maybe just the
official-party-line) on
the elimination of
our beloved pushbuttons will
probably be found, published in one, or
more, of the
automotive
enthusiast magazines of 1964, on one of their "News From
Detroit"
front-pages.
Neil Vedder
Dave Homstad
wrote:
> Bill,
>
> The Gov't wanted the shifting mechanism
to operate like all the others. Some people were making mistakes with
unfamiliar mechanisms and patterns, causing accidents or damage to the drive
train.
>
> Dave Homstad
> 56 Dodge D500
>
>
---- Bill Amberger <Magnumguy@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I was told/heard that the Gov't. told Chrysler to make their cars
operate like all others, so no pushbuttons. But, weren't pushbuttons used on
the heater controls w/o complaint?
>>
>>
>> Bill
The Magnumguy
>>
>> Romans 8:28-29
>>
http://www.mopowerstyle.net
>> Chapel & Magnum/Cordoba
Forums
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
Original Message -----
>> From: Gary Runkel
>> To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 9:06
PM
>> Subject: [FWDLK] Push Button
Tranny
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know the
REAL reason Chrysler stopped using the pushbutton trans controls after the
1964 model year? Some people have told me it was because they wanted to be
more conventional to the public. Others have even said there too many
complaints from women breaking their nails when trying to push the
buttons.
>>
>> I'm hoping to hear from people
who were employed by Chrysler or Ross Roy in that era that were in a position
to KNOW the reason(s).
>>
>>
Thanks,
>>
>> Gary
Runkel
>>
>> Canton, MI
>>
>>
>>
*************************************************************
>>
>>
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>>
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Date:
Fri, 6 Jun 2008 16:38:46 -0500
From: Wayne Graefen
<wgraefen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: 30 Cylinder Chrysler Engine
(Yes - THIRTY)
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:08:43
EDT
From: Fury Jim <JRawa@xxxxxxx>
Subject:
better than pushbuttons....
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type:
multipart/alternative;
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aside from the pushbutton trans's and heater controls, which i consider
commomplace after so many mopars.... how about the position of the
vacuum-reject turn signal lever on my 60 imperial.... that was a little
unconventional i'd say..
i believe a year or 2 of either caddy or lincoln had the horn
blow by pushing the trun signal lever ...
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 16:42:13
-0700
From: Eastern Sierra Adjustment Services
<esierraadj@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: better than
pushbuttons....
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That same-sort of turn-signal lever-switch appeared
(briefly) in
mid-late 90's Sebring(?)
coupes & convertibles, on the
upper side of the dashboard.
Fury Jim wrote:
> aside from the
pushbutton trans's and heater controls, which i
> consider commomplace
after so many mopars.... how about the position
> of the
vacuum-reject turn signal lever on my 60 imperial.... that was
> a
little unconventional i'd say..
>
> i believe a year or 2
of either caddy or lincoln had the horn blow by
> pushing the trun
signal lever ...
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler
>
Florence" on AOL Food
>
<http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002>.
>
>
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Date:
Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:42:38 -0700
From: Jan & Roger
van Hoy <vanhilla@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: '59 Dodge CRL convert on
eBay
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Not mine,
etc.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D140238836643%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1&item=140238836643
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Date:
Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:47:21 -0700
From: Jan & Roger
van Hoy <vanhilla@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: 30 Cylinder Chrysler
Engine (Yes - THIRTY)
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I've seen vintage WW II pix of this engine, but never a
modern pic in color.
Don't see how the five engine speeds could be regulated
close enough to not be fighting each other, but hey I guess it
worked.
--Roger van Hoy, Washougal, WA, '55 DeSoto, '58 DeSoto, '56
Plymouth, '66 Plymouth, '41 Dodge
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 2:38
PM
Subject: [FWDLK] 30 Cylinder Chrysler
Engine (Yes - THIRTY)
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Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:59:58
-0700
From: Bill Watson <wwatson6@xxxxxxx>
Subject:
Re: Pushing my buttons !
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Yup.
CAR LIFE, September, 1964, page
66
"Chrysler abandons its push-button automatic transmission selector
after
nearly 10 years. It was highly popular for some years, but it
ran its
course. There are at least 10 reasons why it was
dropped.
"But perhaps the most important was the human habit
factor. Buyers
switching from a GM or Ford product, while originally
intrigued by the
push-buttons, found them a bit inconvenient. Some
drivers, used to the old
steering column lever, would forget themselves
and push heater buttons due
to right-hand habit. Too, in recent
years the selector buttons were placed
so close together that some drivers
would accidentally hit the wrong button.
"Driver training schools and
rental and leasing agencies also started to
show some reluctance toward
the cars. "Why shouldn't they, when 85% of the
cars on the road have
steering column shift levers," says one Chrysler
staffer. "And
that's what most people have been accustomed to, so we had to
get back
into the swim of things." Push-buttons were an excellent selling
point for a long time, but no longer - even in this push-button
era."
POPULAR SCIENCE, October, 1964, "What's New at the Chrysler
Corporation",
pages 86-89
On page 87 -
"Pushbutton controls for
the Torqueflite automatic transmission have been
dropped from all Chrysler
products. The usual column-mounted selector
lever now does the
job. Reason : Surveys show that although owners of
Chrysler-built
products liked the pushbuttons, most of the owners of
competitive cars
claimed they would not buy a car with pushbuttons."
Note absolutely
no mention of any government rules or regulations. And for
one
simple reason - there were none in 1965.
POPULAR MECHANICS did an
owners' report on the new 1965 Plymouth Fury for
the August, 1965,
issue. Under "Least-liked Interior Features", 3.5%
mentioned "No pushbuttons" (#4 on the list). Under "Most-desired
Changes"
came "Restore transmission buttons" at 4.6% (#2 on the
list). Given the
miniscule numbers in favour of the buttons, it
seems Chrysler may have done
their
homework.
Bill
Vancouver, BC
----- Original
Message -----
From: "Eastern Sierra Adjustment Services"
<esierraadj@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To:
<L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 12:48
PM
Subject: [FWDLK] Pushing my buttons !
> Dave/Bill/List,
the "answer" (or, maybe just the official-party-line) on
> the
elimination of
> our beloved pushbuttons will probably be found,
published in one, or more,
> of the automotive
> enthusiast
magazines of 1964, on one of their "News From Detroit"
>
front-pages.
>
> Neil Vedder
>
>
>
> Dave
Homstad wrote:
>> Bill,
>> The Gov't wanted the shifting
mechanism to operate like all the others.
>> Some people were making
mistakes with unfamiliar mechanisms and patterns,
>> causing
accidents or damage to the drive train.
>> Dave Homstad
>>
56 Dodge D500
>> ---- Bill Amberger <Magnumguy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>>> I was told/heard that the Gov't. told Chrysler to make
their cars
>>> operate like all others, so no pushbuttons. But,
weren't pushbuttons
>>> used on the heater controls w/o
complaint?
>>>
>>>
>>> Bill The
Magnumguy
>>>
>>> Romans 8:28-29
>>>
http://www.mopowerstyle.net
>>> Chapel & Magnum/Cordoba
Forums
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Gary Runkel
To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, June
>>> 05, 2008
9:06 PM
>>> Subject: [FWDLK] Push Button
Tranny
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone
know the REAL reason Chrysler stopped using the pushbutton
>>>
trans controls after the 1964 model year? Some people have told me it
>>> was because they wanted to be more conventional to the
public. Others
>>> have even said there too many complaints from
women breaking their nails
>>> when trying to push the
buttons.
>>>
>>> I'm hoping to hear from
people who were employed by Chrysler or Ross
>>> Roy in that era
that were in a position to KNOW the
reason(s).
>>>
>>>
Thanks,
>>>
>>> Gary
Runkel
>>>
>>> Canton, MI
>>>
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