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stellarrestorations
Posted 2010-10-01 10:50 AM (#243854)
Subject: P/T tag details



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Attached is a picture of 2 '56 Dodge P/T tags.

The severely rusted tag is from the car we are building, while the clean tag is from a parts car we recently acquired.

We are getting ready to have AG reproduce our tag, but I noticed several differences between the parts car tag (which we were going to provide as a good example) and the tag for the car we're restoring.

 

My assumption begins with the idea that our restoration car is a detroit built car, while our parts car would be an LA built car.

 

My question is to find out if anybody knows what was centered in the bottom line of the rusty tag.  I'm thinking it was "Chrysler Corporation", because it doesn't seem to have enough room to have both "Dodge Division" and "Chrysler Corp"  like the parts car tag has.  The remnants of any lettering on the bottom line is also much closer to the bottom compared to the parts car tag.

 

Thanks,





(tags.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments tags.jpg (69KB - 127 downloads)
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-01 6:44 PM (#243899 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Tim, you will need to obtain a copy of the factory's IBM Build Card in order to confirm the missing numbers on
your restoration car's Paint/Trim tag.

Your resto-car was built in Detroit, and the other example pertains to a car that was not built in Detroit (Newark, DE?).

The IBM card ordering information is shown in the two 'Sticky' messages at the top of this message board.




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Chrycoman
Posted 2010-10-02 12:28 AM (#243921 - in reply to #243899)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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Dodge cars were built in two plants in 1956 - Detroit (Hamtramck) and Los Angeles. The renovated Newark plant did not start car assembly operations until the spring of 1957 (Plymouth). Dodge was added for the 1958 model year. The Newark plant started out as a tank facility in 1951. Wasn't much need for tanks after the Korean War ended.
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stellarrestorations
Posted 2010-10-02 3:16 AM (#243925 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: RE: P/T tag details



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Thanks for these comments but we're  not missing any numbers, we have copies of the ibm card already.

 

What I need to know is what is stamped on the bottom edge of a tag similar to our Detroit built car.  The LA car is clearly different with "Dodge Division" and "Chrysler Corp."  just below the option information.

There are remnants of letters very  near the bottom of the lower lip on the rusty tag.  At best I can guess that they are "ion".  But is that "Dodge Division" or "Chrysler Corporation"



Edited by stellarrestorations 2010-10-02 5:01 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-08 8:10 PM (#244844 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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OHHH....; if that's all you need: it says :"CHRYSLER CORPORATION" ; PM sent w/photo.





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56RoyalLancer
Posted 2010-10-11 5:29 PM (#245149 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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Tim, I can upload a photo of my tag from 56 Dodge Built in Detroit if needed. Let me know. Greg
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stellarrestorations
Posted 2010-10-12 7:05 AM (#245229 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: RE: P/T tag details



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Thanks, Greg.  Neil has already sent one, and we're good to go!
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56RoyalLancer
Posted 2010-10-12 11:03 AM (#245244 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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Tim,

If you are willing, would you share the tag / ibm card and other information on you car with me? My car is very close to the one you are restoring. It looks to be the same year and model, same engine, same garnet one color body, same red and black royal interior. It would be interesting to compare this information to see if it matches up. Thanks. Greg

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?album...

Edited by 56RoyalLancer 2010-10-12 11:05 AM
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-12 3:51 PM (#245268 - in reply to #245244)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Greg, in my 1956 file, I only have two other Royal 2-dr HT's recorded, and neither has the PAINT/PT codes of 273 or 161
altho one is "167" (black & white) and the other is "077" (Golden Lancer gold/white).

You are saying that Paint code "273" is all-Garnet, and that Trim code "538" is red/black(Royal) ?

For that second P/T plate, above, another Royal 2-dr HT, I also don't have a Paint code for "161" or a Trim code for "537".

Tim, do you know what the color(s) and trim may be, for that 'second' car?






Edited by d500neil 2010-10-12 3:53 PM
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56RoyalLancer
Posted 2010-10-14 12:55 AM (#245496 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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Neil and Tim,

Here is what I found out. My tag read the following: Body - 826, Paint - 52 and Trim 538

So... the 826 Body should be correct for Royal 2-dr HT's, the Paint - 52 on my is all-Garnet (I know this to be correct), must be different on Tim's car. Could be that it is a two or three tone with Garnet originally.
The Trim- 538 matches with Tim's car and should be the correct code for red/black((Royal) interior. Also, my tag looks very similar to the lower parts car tag that is shown in Tim's photo. Left lower says "Dodge Division".

Edited by 56RoyalLancer 2010-10-14 12:56 AM
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-14 5:52 PM (#245587 - in reply to #245496)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Greg, your car's Paint code is probably (or, 'officially') 052 .

I know that 055 is for all white...but, we can't say that the 2-digit PNT codes are only for single colors, because 077 is
the gold/white "Golden Lancer" code.

Brent Burger's (DocSoto, here) 56 D500 2-tone Sierra wagon has the PNT code 099, but, I don't have those
particular paint names recorded--Greg, can you (or Brent!) look at that car's pics, and let me know what colors that
they are?

There's no rhyme/reason for the 56 PNT codes, and not much reasoning on/for the Trim codes, either.

Wagons and verts have TRM codes that begin with an "8", but, overall, the 3-digit PNT and TRM codes appear to identify
a particular scheme, rather than being able to be broken-down from their individual numbers--like the BDY codes are.






Edited by d500neil 2010-10-14 6:00 PM
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56RoyalLancer
Posted 2010-10-14 10:43 PM (#245625 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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Neil, On my P/T tag the PNT code is just 52. There is no leading zero.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2010-10-15 12:14 AM (#245635 - in reply to #245625)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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Neil,

Got your PM. Just to keep info together, our wagon has the off-white below the side trim line
and on the roof. The magenta (is this called "garnet"?) is above the side trim line and on the
roof pillars. Glad you recorded the code. I am 12 months and 12,000 miles from looking at it
again !

It might be of note that our wagon was special-ordered in that paint scheme. This is from the
mouth of the original owner. A first car was ordered and mistakenly sold to another party upon
delivery, so a second special order car had to be rushed through with that paint and the D-500
option .... the two things the original owners wanted on their car.

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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-15 3:18 PM (#245728 - in reply to #245635)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Greg, that first "0" may be a sort of accounting-digit; I'll PM you with a P/T plate From a Royal Golden Lancer 2-dr ("826")
that is paint coded : "PT 077"...but, also of another car (all white) that has its P/T plate say "PAINT 55"....

Yeah, Brent, your car's colors are Garnet Poly(metallic) and Sapphire White, Paint code 099.

Not much recording consistency, in 1956, probably because the P/T plates were only introduced around 6/55, the previous
model year--and those guys say very little about how the subject cars were built/optioned.




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Chrycoman
Posted 2010-10-16 2:15 AM (#245793 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: RE: P/T tag details



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1956 Dodge colours are not that confusing.

The colour codes used in printed material all started with '5'. Single tone colours were less than 560 while two and thee tones ran from 561 up to 577.

To make things interesting, two tones with no suffix had the roof in one colour while '-1' suffix was the deluxe two tone style with roof colour also on upper body (saddle). Three tones had variations with -2 suffix (white roof), -3 (black roof), or -4 (coral roof).

To make things simple (?) someone decided to drop the first '5' on the body tag's paint code from single tones (although some appear to have had the '5' replaced by '0'). Two and three tone cars had the '5' dropped and replaced by the suffix.

Thus '161' on the tag is '561-1' on the paint chip chart while '061' is just '561'. 561-1, by the way. was Royal Blue Metallic upper over a Wedgewood Blue body.
573-2 was a white roof over a Garnet lower body and a Black saddle colour. The tag code for this combination would be 273.

Someone stated 167 is black and white. A correct 167 would be 567-1, which is a Charcoal over Cloud Gray. A white roof over black was 560, or 060. If the roof white also covered the upper portion of the body, the code was 560-1, or 160. Dodge did not list a black over white two tone.

A three tone car with a white roof would start with '2' on the tag or have a '-2' suffix on the chip sheet. And if the car was black, white and coral, versions with a white roof were 573-2 (273), black roof (573-3 or 373) or coral roof (573-4 or 473).

A '099' would be a special order two tone - 599, roof in one colour and the rest of car in another. Chrysler used double or triple 9's to denote special colours or combinations.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2010-10-16 11:54 AM (#245814 - in reply to #245793)
Subject: RE: P/T tag details



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Thanks, Bill. A wealth of information as always.
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56RoyalLancer
Posted 2010-10-16 12:37 PM (#245818 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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Bill, Thanks. That information is great to have. I appreciate you taking the time to write it down. I will be keeping a copy of that on my PC for sure. I may even take the time to go through the paint chip set to denote the PT codes. Can anyone add more light on the body numbers or trim codes?
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-16 4:00 PM (#245843 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Thanks, Bill; NOT confusing, eh?

Well, Brent's factory custom painted magenta/white car, code 099, happens to have the white on BOTH the upper and the
lower areas, with the magenta applied across the middle "saddle" area.

I've seen/got the 56 Paint Chip, but never made the mental leap, concerning the first "5" or the first "2" .

I just checked my Paint code sheet, and I don't see any codes for single colors, such as all-Garnet (052 or 552)

Perhaps you can provide us with a listing/breakout of the single colors' codings?




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Chrycoman
Posted 2010-10-16 11:37 PM (#245870 - in reply to #245843)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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d500neil - 2010-10-16 4:00 PM

Thanks, Bill; NOT confusing, eh?

Well, Brent's factory custom painted magenta/white car, code 099, happens to have the white on BOTH the upper and the
lower areas, with the magenta applied across the middle "saddle" area.

I've seen/got the 56 Paint Chip, but never made the mental leap, concerning the first "5" or the first "2" .

I just checked my Paint code sheet, and I don't see any codes for single colors, such as all-Garnet (052 or 552)

Perhaps you can provide us with a listing/breakout of the single colors' codings?



In 1956 two tone schemes were offered in two flavours - Roof one colour and the rest of the car another (5XX) and roof and saddle one colour with the lower body another (5XX-1). The only schemes with the saddle different from the roof and lower body were three tones. In the case of the white-magenta-white, the "0" was used as the roof and saddle were different colours, but as the scheme was two colours in a design not offered by Dodge, the colour code was "99", normal Chrysler practise for non-production paint schemes and colours.

I have copies of the Ditzler and DuPont sheets for the 1956 Dodge, and both list the following single colour codes -

501 - Jewel Black
505 - Wedgewood Blue
506 - Royal Blue Metallic
515 - Aquamarine
516 - Neptune Green Metallic
517 - Sea Foam Green
518 - Jade Green Metallic
540 - Cloud Gray
541 - Iridescent Charcoal Gray
550 - Chinese Rose
551 - Oriental Coral
552 - Garnet Metallic
555 - Sapphire White
556 - Crown Yellow

Three other colours were used, introduced later in the model year, but not given single tone codes as they were used on two tone schemes only.

Misty Orchid (576-1 : Roof and Saddle)
Regal Orchid (576-1 : Lower body)

Gallant Gold Metallic (DeSoto called it Adventurer Gold) with code 577. Not sure of the suffix, though.
- Was used in the saddle area with Sapphire White for the roof and lower body area, the only example of that paint style offered by Dodge in 1956.

Two and three tone schemes started at 560.

The Ditzler sheets show the single colours on one side with their codes, if there is one, on one side with the two and three tone schemes on the reverse. Ditzler issued to supplements for the introduction of the colours mentioned above, although only the Gallant Gold was added to the sheet (September revision).

DuPont show the colours on two sheets, with the colours along the right edge, the formulas (if any) on the left side and the schemes/codes using the colours between.

I have the DuPont supplement bulletin with Misty Orchid and Regal Orchid (introduced December, 1955) but no DuPont info for Gallant Gold¸Metallic.

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2010-10-17 12:35 AM (#245876 - in reply to #245870)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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Here are some "as found" photos ~ http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?album...
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-18 3:07 PM (#246059 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Thanks, Bill!

Brent, can you refer us to a previous thread-comment of yours, regarding your car's build history,
or can you, in your copious free time re-tell it, here, as it IS interesting, and explains its
custom "099" paint code!!







Edited by d500neil 2010-10-18 3:20 PM
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MOPAR-TO-YA
Posted 2010-10-18 9:42 PM (#246125 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: RE: P/T tag details


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I don't know if this will help you guys, but my 56 Chrysler was painted crocus yellow and charcoal. That did not show in the Dupont color chart for 56 Chrysler that I have. I did find those colors in the 57 chip chart and in small print said " also 1956 Spring Special" That was the first clue as to what my car was. Recently I found an advertisement from 1956 that showed the other Spring special colors. Only about two others. That is the only mention of 56 Spring Special's that I can find to date. ..............................MO
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2010-10-19 9:31 AM (#246173 - in reply to #246059)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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d500neil - 2010-10-19 12:07 PM

Thanks, Bill!

Brent, can you refer us to a previous thread-comment of yours, regarding your car's build history,
or can you, in your copious free time re-tell it, here, as it IS interesting, and explains its
custom "099" paint code!!


**************************************************

I have no idea where my original telling of this story might be, so I'll rattle it off again ....

The original (couple) owners' son explained that his parents were very excited over the new
56 Dodge and decided to buy one. Mom wanted a wagon and chose the paint colors, Dad got
the D-500 option. They ordered the car from Eddy's Garage in Deadwood, SD and waited for
a delivery call. The son from whom I purchased the car was home on leave from the Army when
the call came and he drove his mother from Spearfish to Deadwood to pick up the car. Upon arriving
the flustered salesman could not produce the car, and after some investigation found that the car was
immediately sold to a walk-in buyer by another salesman, unknowing that this new arrival was
already sold. So, a mad-rush order was placed and a second car of the same spec's was built and
delivered to the somewhat pissed couple as fast as could be arranged.

When we bought this car, I had no idea the paint code was anything unusual, and only through the
telling of the story by the original owners' son did I have a clue that it was special ordered. It is fun
to confirm his story by way of the data tag.

As an aside, the son and his wife, now in their 70's, have promised me access to family photo albums
with pictures of the car from when new. However, they have children storing household stuff at their place
and say they can't get at the albums until the kids get their own place. I stop in every now and then and
see how things are going. Let them know I am still interested. I'll bug them again when I get stateside.
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-19 4:09 PM (#246217 - in reply to #246173)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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So, the 'moral' of the story is: a "Special-Order" interior and/or paint job does NOT have to involve any unique parts
and/or paint applications being added to a car; the 'special-part' can merely refer to any CHANGE or expediting to a
particular car's creation.

In this case, another 56 wagon, scheduled to come 'down' the line, had its exterior colors changed to match what Brent's
car's OEM owners wanted to have appear on it, and...ASAP!

I wonder if the D500 engine was also Specially-Expedited, too---there's no coding for that, but, the IBM card might just list
this car as having a non-D500 engine installed in it!!!???

The Body-Broadcast-Sheet (not the one which may have been attached to the back of the dashboard) would have had
interesting 'Special Instructions' written onto it---at least, confirming the car's exterior colors, and, maybe, the D500 engine.






Edited by d500neil 2010-10-19 4:15 PM
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56RoyalLancer
Posted 2010-10-19 4:23 PM (#246220 - in reply to #246125)
Subject: RE: P/T tag details



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Steve (a.k.a. MO),

Recently I found an advertisement from 1956 that showed the other Spring special colors.

Can you let us know what the other Spring special colors were? It would be great to have as much information on the codes as possible for future reference. Neil, are you dutifully adding all this information to a catalog somewhere?

Greg
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-19 4:42 PM (#246226 - in reply to #246220)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Location: bishop, ca
Actually, I am---I printed out Bill's paint-coding information, for my 1956 File.




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MOPAR-TO-YA
Posted 2010-10-20 3:02 AM (#246289 - in reply to #246217)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details


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d500neil - 2010-10-19 3:09 PM

So, the 'moral' of the story is: a "Special-Order" interior and/or paint job does NOT have to involve any unique parts
and/or paint applications being added to a car; the 'special-part' can merely refer to any CHANGE or expediting to a
particular car's creation.

In this case, another 56 wagon, scheduled to come 'down' the line, had its exterior colors changed to match what Brent's
car's OEM owners wanted to have appear on it, and...ASAP!

I wonder if the D500 engine was also Specially-Expedited, too---there's no coding for that, but, the IBM card might just list
this car as having a non-D500 engine installed in it!!!???

The Body-Broadcast-Sheet (not the one which may have been attached to the back of the dashboard) would have had
interesting 'Special Instructions' written onto it---at least, confirming the car's exterior colors, and, maybe, the D500 engine.




This is interesting. Maybe Ma Mopar did do some things special order on the assembly line. That might explain my different side sweep paint and the trim that goes with it. I did get my IBM card, and as far as I can tell, it doesn't show these changes.............................MO
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56RoyalLancer
Posted 2010-10-20 1:19 PM (#246330 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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Group,

My car came with dual exhaust, 315 poly with 2bbl carb. Will the IBM card for my car show if the car was equipped with dual exhaust? Was this stock or was single exhaust stock?

Edited by 56RoyalLancer 2010-10-20 1:20 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-20 4:20 PM (#246348 - in reply to #246330)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Location: bishop, ca
Greg, yes, your car's "dual exhaust " option will be confirmed on the IBM card copy, because the single-exhaust pipe was the
Standard Equipment, on the 315 2-bbl V/8 engine.

The Custom Royal was the only model which had the dualies as standard equipment, and the dualies WERE available with
the 2-bbl carb.

The 4-bbl carb & the dualies were known as the "Power Package" option, which was a different option from having just the
dualies, & the 2-bbl carb, on a V/8 engine.




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Chrycoman
Posted 2010-10-20 10:29 PM (#246413 - in reply to #246289)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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MOPAR-TO-YA - 2010-10-20 3:02 AM

This is interesting. Maybe Ma Mopar did do some things special order on the assembly line. That might explain my different side sweep paint and the trim that goes with it. I did get my IBM card, and as far as I can tell, it doesn't show these changes.............................MO



I don't think Chrysler would have grabbed a car rolling down the line and modified it. They would have programmed a complete car, entered it into the system, and assembled it as soon as they could fit it into the schedule. That is how and why a car would have its build record. There is also the possibility Chrysler took a wagon scheduled to be assembled, but not ordered by a customer or dealer, and modified the build details to suite the buyer waiting for his car.

I owned a 1972 Dart that was built to keep the lines running (not ordered by a dealer for his back lot or by a customer with cash in his jeans). I found a number of broadcast sheets in the car and they changed as time went by. The final car, as it came off the line, lost its radio, wheelcovers, whitewalls, side vinyl trim and a couple of other things from the earliest to the last sheet.

It was also quite easy to add a car to the mix. Although assembly lines are designed to run at 60 cars per hour, they rarely run at that rate, especially in a year such as 1956 when sales were down from 1955. Which is also how Ford was able to add the Edsel to Ford and Mercury lines. 1958 was a bad year for car sales so adding a few Edsels per hour per plant still did not get the lines anywhere close to 60 per hour. Contrary to what some claim, no FoMoCo assembly plant was stuck building 61 cars per hour due to the Edsel. They were doing well if they hit 50 per hour in 1958.

What does the IBM card show for your car?
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-21 2:44 PM (#246490 - in reply to #246413)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
If Chrysler programmed Brent's car's creation, it would have carried a proper paint code on it, I believe.

The factory probably found a close-car that was to have been built, and changed its paint code to 099, from
whatever it would have been Scheduled to have been painted.

This would have been no-big-deal to the factory.

I am curious about whether Brent's car was OEM intended to have been a D500 wagon....



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56RoyalLancer
Posted 2010-10-21 2:50 PM (#246493 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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I am know curious as to what Brent's IBM card shows as the paint code... Wonder if it is close to the final color or something different.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2010-10-21 3:04 PM (#246496 - in reply to #246490)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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Just to add a little mystery to the mix on our wagon .... this car was wearing the all-chrome
Coronet / Royal type headlight rings when we got it, with several extra sets in the car to boot.
As it turns out, this car is indeed a CUSTOM Sierra (with the fancier interior) and as part of the
package *should* have been built with the Custom Royal level PAINTED headlight rings. The
original owner's son (who has known this car since new) insists that this car has had the chromies
on it since day one.

I have tried to explain the model breakdown to him and how the car should have the painted
rings, but he just kinda bowls me over and says he doesn't know anything about that, ... those
(the chrome ones) are what it has had since new.

OK, so taking him at his word, and knowing the car was rush ordered to cover a mistake in
selling the original special ordered car to someone else, .... I have wondered if perhaps the
first car built was a plain Sierra, and in the rush to cover their asses, a Custom Sierra was
somehow a quicker car to snag, and the dealer swapped out those headlight rings during dealer
prep to make the car look like the original one the couple ordered / expected ?

Given how few D-500 wagons might have been built, and in that particular color combo, it just
seems odd that the second car (mine) has the Custom Sierra interior, yet has the lower model head
light trims and the seller is so adamant that it was always that way.
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-21 5:48 PM (#246516 - in reply to #246496)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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The IBM build-card will only show the PNT code on Brent's car as being (unfortunately): 099---for some-sort of non-specified color combination.

That's a major problem with "special" interiors and exteriors; the codings only confirm the existence of some sort of Special-construction.

Over on the Members Rides board, there is a PLY station wagon, that was sold to the USAF...as Bill pointed out, its LACK of having a rear seat (a 3-passenger wagon!)....probably was what caused it to have a " 099(IIRC) " Trim code.

If someone had merely encountered this car's P/T plate, he would not have been able to confirm WHAT was so special about its interior-trim, FROM the 099 TRM code!

A special-built car's "body" Broadcast Sheet would probably confirm that car's special exterior colors, and, maybe, its special interior treatment, too.

It really is important to have some sort of residual OEM colors/trim still existing on a car, in order to know WHAT may have been so-special about a specially outfitted car.






Edited by d500neil 2010-10-21 5:51 PM
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-21 7:29 PM (#246528 - in reply to #246516)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Brent, it's too bad that the 'wrong' car's VIN has been lost to the ages...

It, undoubtedly, carried the correct magenta/white paint-codings on it, regardless if the car was 'ordered' by the customers,
at their dealership, as long as the Magenta/White was an OEM available color scheme.

Those "099" codes only apply to conditions that are not normally available, like red interiors in a 300, or a non-standard 300
color (like Magenta).

Your car may have started out as being a Sierra wagon, or maybe a Custom Royal in a different color scheme.

At any rate, somebody failed (or cared!) to put the CR headlight bezels onto your car (the Sierra theory); that-much
appears not to be in doubt; 'why' that was done is the question.

I'm mostly curious about the D500 engine that got installed into your car, and what the IBM card might show, in Re:
its engine number (changed, to D500?).

At any rate, your car, apparently, may not have been intended as being OEM painted in Magenta/white....IF: Magenta/White was an OEM available color scheme!!!

The 56 Ross Roy, and other publications, will list the available color combinations.






Edited by d500neil 2010-10-21 7:31 PM
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MOPAR-TO-YA
Posted 2010-10-21 9:39 PM (#246545 - in reply to #246220)
Subject: RE: P/T tag details


Expert 5K+

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56RoyalLancer - 2010-10-19 3:23 PM

Steve (a.k.a. MO),

Recently I found an advertisement from 1956 that showed the other Spring special colors.

Can you let us know what the other Spring special colors were? It would be great to have as much information on the codes as possible for future reference. Neil, are you dutifully adding all this information to a catalog somewhere?

Greg
OK, I found my Saturday Evening Post magazine dated April 28, 1956. It has the Chrysler ad telling about " Bright new Windsors for Spring" and showing cars with the new colors.. Cloud white with copper glow roof and side spear. ---then an all cloud white 2 dr hdtp------then a cloud white with blue jade roof and spear. --- and then The crocus yellow with white roof and white spear. They all had the copper glow interior. My Chrysler is crocus with the unusual big side spear that was in charcoal. When I got the car, the roof had been light tan primered, so I don't know what color it was originally. I have looked for a hint around the roof edges, but someone did a thourough primering. Maybe if I took off some trim? My Chrysler also has the copper glow interior............................MO
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MOPAR-TO-YA
Posted 2010-10-21 9:45 PM (#246548 - in reply to #246413)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details


Expert 5K+

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Chrycoman - 2010-10-20 9:29 PM

MOPAR-TO-YA - 2010-10-20 3:02 AM

This is interesting. Maybe Ma Mopar did do some things special order on the assembly line. That might explain my different side sweep paint and the trim that goes with it. I did get my IBM card, and as far as I can tell, it doesn't show these changes.............................MO



I don't think Chrysler would have grabbed a car rolling down the line and modified it. They would have programmed a complete car, entered it into the system, and assembled it as soon as they could fit it into the schedule. That is how and why a car would have its build record. There is also the possibility Chrysler took a wagon scheduled to be assembled, but not ordered by a customer or dealer, and modified the build details to suite the buyer waiting for his car.

I owned a 1972 Dart that was built to keep the lines running (not ordered by a dealer for his back lot or by a customer with cash in his jeans). I found a number of broadcast sheets in the car and they changed as time went by. The final car, as it came off the line, lost its radio, wheelcovers, whitewalls, side vinyl trim and a couple of other things from the earliest to the last sheet.

It was also quite easy to add a car to the mix. Although assembly lines are designed to run at 60 cars per hour, they rarely run at that rate, especially in a year such as 1956 when sales were down from 1955. Which is also how Ford was able to add the Edsel to Ford and Mercury lines. 1958 was a bad year for car sales so adding a few Edsels per hour per plant still did not get the lines anywhere close to 60 per hour. Contrary to what some claim, no FoMoCo assembly plant was stuck building 61 cars per hour due to the Edsel. They were doing well if they hit 50 per hour in 1958.

What does the IBM card show for your car?
Bill --et all-- I don't want to tromp on this thread, so I will start a new one later. My wife will scan the IBM card and my trim plate etc. and I will post it after the weekend......Thanks for any help.........................MO
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Chrycoman
Posted 2010-10-22 12:23 AM (#246564 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: RE: P/T tag details



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Location: Vancouver, BC

Attached file is for 1956 Dodge two-tone combinations :





Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1956 dodge 2-T.xls (9KB - 155 downloads)
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Chrycoman
Posted 2010-10-22 12:30 AM (#246566 - in reply to #246564)
Subject: RE: P/T tag details



Expert

Posts: 1819
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Location: Vancouver, BC
And three tone combinations.

These are for the combinations as offered by Dodge for 1956 in the U.S., OEM as you say. Anything NOT on the lists I have provided would be paint code '99' for the colour(s).





Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1956 dodge 3-T.xls (6KB - 139 downloads)
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56RoyalLancer
Posted 2010-10-22 12:30 PM (#246601 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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Posts: 608
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Wow! Super information Bill. Thanks for putting that together!
Do we have enough information to put together the codes for the trim (or have a guess at it)? I know that Trim code "538" is red/black(Royal). I might assume that the "5" is royal (not coronet or CRL) and that 38 is red/black. I know that the interior came in a number of colors (red/black, grey/black, blue,black and green,black). Am I missing any? Trim number may also be different if the dash as painted a coordinating color as well?
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-22 5:19 PM (#246636 - in reply to #246601)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
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Bill, I don't know if those are U.S. color schemes, or not, but the "colors" are spelled "colours(Canadian)"?

Are these factory documents, produced by Chryco (Chrysler Canada) ?

At any rate, I don't see Brent's car's Garnet Metallic being available in a 2-tone, with Sapphire White, so, that
paint combination WOULD warrant a special "099" PNT code, on his car.

I now wonder how identical Brent's car's creation was, to that 'other' car, which was sold to that other customer?

It's sort of like finding out that you have an identical twin, but you don't know where he might be living, or even, if he is still
alive.

Greg, the Trim codes, and the Body codes (and the PNT codes) that I've got have all been determined from real car observations.









Edited by d500neil 2010-10-22 5:50 PM
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Chrycoman
Posted 2010-10-22 11:43 PM (#246670 - in reply to #246636)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Expert

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d500neil - 2010-10-22 5:19 PM

Bill, I don't know if those are U.S. color schemes, or not, but the "colors" are spelled "colours(Canadian)"?

Are these factory documents, produced by Chryco (Chrysler Canada) ?

At any rate, I don't see Brent's car's Garnet Metallic being available in a 2-tone, with Sapphire White, so, that
paint combination WOULD warrant a special "099" PNT code, on his car.

I now wonder how identical Brent's car's creation was, to that 'other' car, which was sold to that other customer?

It's sort of like finding out that you have an identical twin, but you don't know where he might be living, or even, if he is still
alive.

Greg, the Trim codes, and the Body codes (and the PNT codes) that I've got have all been determined from real car observations.


"Colour" is non-American English. In the United States it is "colors". In every other English-speaking country it is spelled the original way, "colours". The "u" was dropped from neighbour, labour, colour, etc. by an American newspaper publisher (Chicago Tribune?) about 100 years ago. Why? Fewer letters in a word meant more words per line, fewer lines per article and more advertising per page. He also changed "centre" to "center", "metre" (length) to "meter" and "theatre" to "theater" (thus "thee-ay-ter") and dropped double letters - "cancelled" to "canceled".

The codes were from colour chip sheets published by DuPont and Ditzler, who in turn got their codes from Chrysler Corporation. The codes are American and not Canadian. Chrysler of Canada did not adopt the U.S. codes until 1966. The 1956 Chrysler of Canada codes, used on all Canadian-built Chryco cars -

10 - Black
11 - Surf White
12 - Prairie Beige
13 - Forest Green Metallic
14 - Sage Green (same as U.S. 1956 DeSoto)
15 - Light Aqua (same as U.S. 1956 DeSoto)
16 - Neptune Green Metallic (same as U.S. 1956 Dodge)
16 - Neptune Green Metallic #2 *
17 - Aquamarine (same as U.S. 1956 Dodge)
18 - Mediterranean Blue Metallic *
19 - Tahoe Blue
20 - St.Clair Blue *
21 - Turquoise Blue (same as U.S. 1956 Plymouth)
22 - Heron Grey Metallic
23 - Satin Grey
24 - Butterfly Yellow
25 - Cherry Red
26 - Magenta Metallic *
27 - Lilac *
28 - Heather Metallic *
29 - Shell Pink (same as U.S. 1956 DeSoto)

Spring colours -
50 - Pine Green Metallic
51 - Desert Rose (same as U.S. 1956 Chrysler)
52 - Oriental Coral (same as U.S. 1956 Dodge)
53 - Parakeet *

Colours with * were unique Canadian colours. Colours without * or "same as" were used in the U.S. prior to 1956.

Two-tones were used by combining single tone codes, Black roof over Cherry Red body was 1025. Three tones had unique codes, from 3001 to 3046, 3316 to 3330, 3373 to 3397. That's 86 three tone combinations offered.

Imported models used colours, engines, options, and trim as used in the U.S.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2010-10-23 1:36 AM (#246679 - in reply to #246636)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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Location: Parts Unknown
d500neil - 2010-10-23 2:19 PM
I don't see Brent's car's Garnet Metallic being available in a 2-tone, with Sapphire White, so, that
paint combination WOULD warrant a special "099" PNT code, on his car.

I now wonder how identical Brent's car's creation was, to that 'other' car, which was sold to that other customer?

It's sort of like finding out that you have an identical twin, but you don't know where he might be living, or even, if he is still
alive.


*******************************************

This is the thought always going through my head, .... there could not have been many D-500 wagons built
...... and to have two identical ones processed through the same dealer and presumably running around the
same area (Deadwood, SD) ?

I wonder if the first car still exists ? And I wonder just how identical it was to the second car ?

The real hard answer I want is how did the car come to have the chrome headlight trims on it
when it should have had the painted ones ? The seller insists they were always chrome.

There HAS TO be a good story there !
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-23 7:30 PM (#246764 - in reply to #246679)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
...And, the "answer" probably has something to do with the Sierra (probably) wagon which was converted/configured
into becoming your Custom Sierra wagon, at short-notice, at the factory.

...or not.

So, Brent, it appears that your car's original(ly-intended) owners custom-ordered their car in its Garnet/White colors.

It would be neat to see its IBM card, and compare it with your car's card.

Technically, that task is very doable, and probably would take less than about 30 minutes, 'on' the microfilm roll, scrolling
backwards from your car's VIN, looking for another CR wagon, with "099" for painting.




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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2010-10-24 3:54 AM (#246809 - in reply to #246764)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
OK, ... how do you do it ? Get on the phone with CHS for a special request ?

Of course, I can't do anything from here. This will all have to wait until I get home.
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-25 3:56 PM (#247001 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
It's officially "difficult" to get the H.S. to provide non-owned cars' IBM cards---but, ah...in the 90's it WAS possible,
and I scored quite a few representative D500 IBM card copies, for my research work.

Darrell Davis is not presently planning his next H.S. records research foray, but, he might be induced to assist you,
at LEAST as far as finding that 'other' car, and comparing its data to your car's info.

You should have your wife provide the H.S. with your car's ownership documentation (and the moolah) so that you can
obtain its IBM card, asap.






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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2010-10-26 2:00 PM (#247104 - in reply to #247001)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



5000500050005000200050025
Location: Parts Unknown
From this far away, coordinating a hide-n-seek game of titles with the wife might be a bit
more trouble than it is worth. In the last 48 hours before leaving, I cleaned out a 10 x 30
foot storage unit and SOMEWHERE in all those stacked crates is a title for that car ! She has
been a doll for sending me this and that for things I need and cannot get here. But asking
her to spend an eternity looking for something I cannot begin to tell her where it is or what
it looks like might sour an otherwise good thing. I think I will wait.
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-26 3:39 PM (#247116 - in reply to #247104)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
Can she not find the car's Registration?

Probably, a photo of the car, and its VIN, along with a short explanation letter, and maybe a view of the out-of-date
license plate sticker will be acceptable to the H.S.

There's no Registration kept in its glove box?

They, after all, only want to receive a stated-shown "reasonable proof " that a vehicle is owned by the requester,
so that they have that documentation on file, in case someone comes forward, later, to challenge them on why they
gave out his car's info to someone else.

....Happy 9700th post!









Edited by d500neil 2010-10-26 3:42 PM
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2010-10-27 11:05 AM (#247236 - in reply to #247116)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



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Location: Parts Unknown
Prior to taking possession of the car ( I left it in the original owner's garage over the first
winter), I sent my $45 off to CHS with a letter from the owner requesting said information.
They refused to send it, saying the address on the title did not match the address they were
being asked to send the information to. Since I have never registered the car, all I have is
a title in a file somewhere in a box in my shop. I really doubt they are going to go for such
a drawn-out request when they already denied me simply over a non-matching address !

And just for grins, they cashed my MO and never did respond when I left messages asking
for resolution, either through a print out or a reimbursement. Doc is none too happy with CHS
at this stage of the game. And this is not the first go-round with them. For the DeSoto print out,
it took several call backs to finally get whoever it is to send a copy that was not total fuzz. The
copy I finally settled on as "good enough" is terrible, but far better than the previous 3-4 attempts.
On top of that, the dealer code is FUBAR for the known dealer codes they had. Knowing it sold new
in Syracuse, NY, I asked them to cross reference it to figure it out. I was told that they did not
have time for that.

Got any good ideas to circumvent the BS ?
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d500neil
Posted 2010-10-27 6:29 PM (#247307 - in reply to #243854)
Subject: Re: P/T tag details



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19171
500050005000200020001002525
Location: bishop, ca
As far as a fuzzy IBM card copy is concerned, virtually all of them are illegible on one or more areas of them.

That's why 'you' may need to get X-number of other cars' cards, in order to be able to understand the small-and-smaller
wording-and-abbreviations that appear ON any card.

As far as 57 Dodges are concerned, I've scored an original Broadcast Sheet, and a scan of an original IBM card (THAT'S
a rare find), so, they are no mystery...but all the other years have some non-known information on them.

The 56 Dodge's IBM cards are particularly interesting, because there are several areas on it where D500's and D-500-1's
coding might be hidden on them.

The best that most people can hope for, on an IBM card, is to be able to see the big-numbers on them, and then hope that
someone else has another IBM card copy which happens to be legible in the areas where 'your' card is not.

Then, of course, is the problem of trying to interpret what a certain option-number might confirm, or to refer-to.

I wonder how/why/when the Historical Society got to be so persnickety regarding the giving out of IBM cards.

Wasn't always a hassle--and, $15.00/car, too.




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