Re: IML: Harmonic Balancer/Road Timing
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Re: IML: Harmonic Balancer/Road Timing
- From: "Rob van der Es" <R.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:04:58 +0100
Well Paul,
The engine isn't suffering from a run-on condition after the engine is
switched off.
But I don't like the sounds coming from the timing chain cover, so I simply
want to check
what causes these sounds.
And when I actually are at that point, it might be wise to throw some
dollars at it and buy a good quality chain and gears. It will problably last
for another 48 years then:)
And allthough it might not necessary at the moment, I am just curious to see
what is going on inside and what is causing the chatter I hear from time to
time.
Hey, maybe I am just in the mood to throw some money at the car :)
And with the dollar is low as it is now, they are giving the parts away in
my point of view..
You see, for one dollar I only have to pay 68 Euro cents...
It makes the parts that are readily available from lets say Rockauto or
440source unbelievable cheap for us Europeans!!
SInce I run the car on LPG (which has an octane figure of about 110) I can
use the original timing as a reference. After some road test I usually gave
it a little bit more advance then the standard 10 degrees BTDC.
Thanks again,
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: "PAUL WENTINK" <randalpark@xxxxxxx>
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: IML: Harmonic Balancer/Road Timing
It probably is the original one, however if the car is running well,
there isn't really a need to change it right now. The only time it
becomes a serious problem is if the engine has a "run-on" condition
after the ignition is turned off. Under this circumstance, the engine
can jerk front wards and back wards, further damaging the timing set,
or taking up the slack in the chain and possibly causing it to skip
time. This usually only happens to the cars with nylon coated timing
chain teeth, making a new timing set necessary to get the car running
again. In this case, I personally wouldn't do anything about this
unless it was also time to overhaul the complete engine. You can set
the ignition timing by "road timing it", rather than using the timing
light, which is usually with I do to compensate for today's fuels
anyway.
Paul W.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob van der Es <R.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 1:30 am
Subject: Re: IML: Harmonic Balancer
Hi Paul,
Checked it today, and yes there is quite a delay between turning the
engine by hand and seeing the rotor turning...
I guess the timing chain has really streched over the years. Lord knows
how long it has been on the car, maybe still the first one??
Thanks for your helpful contribution (as always!)
Robert
----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL WENTINK" <randalpark@xxxxxxx>
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 1:36 AM
Subject: Re: IML: Harmonic Balancer
I have only had one of these actually fail on a 413, and it made a lot
of noise since it was rubbing against the timing chain cover part of
the time. I doubt that it is causing this problem. You may want to
check your timing chain by removing the distributor cap and watching
the rotor as you move the engine by hand. See if there is a long delay
between the movement of the crank shaft and the rotor. If not, you're
in good shape. The timing gears were metal in the 1960 model, and not
as prone to failure as those used in the 440. Old worn timing chains do
stretch, so it should be checked.
Paul W.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob van der Es <r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 6:07 am
Subject: Re: IML: Harmonic Balancer
Hi Paul,
Ok, back to square one:)
I want to pull the harmonic balancer for two reasons:
a) The timingmarks are changing all the time on the old one, that means
that the rubber has detoriated over the years and that the outer ring
slips...
b) I want to replace the timingchain, I don't know how long the old one
is in use (cause I don't know the maintainace history of the car), but
I can hear that it is making noise (checked it with a stethoscope)
Thanks,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL WENTINK" <randalpark@xxxxxxx>
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: IML: Harmonic Balancer
Let's go back to square one. Why do you want to remove this?
Paul W.
-----Original Message----- From: Rob van der Es
<r.vdes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:01 am
Subject: Re: IML: 59 413 engine color
You might have a point here Rob!
Same thing crossed my mind, but I was more thinking of breaking the
head of the crankshaft bolt..
Leaving the remaining piece of the bolt flush with the
crankshaft....oughhhh!!!
Any thoughts, anyone? How is risky is that starter motor trick
actually??
Thanks,
Robert
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Kidd" <rlkidd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: IML: 59 413 engine color
Sounds easy enough. BUT, what if the bolt was siezed in
the crankshaft tighter than normal and you would shear a
tooth on the starter or the ring gear since the engine
would not normally turn over freely from a dead stop?
Remember, 48+ year old "worn" parts you are dealing with.
I'd try the impact route on the bolt if possible. Rob Kidd
61/65
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 05:35:32 -0600
"Stevan Miner" <miner@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Sounds a little scary to me but if you do it this way, I'd certainly
disconnect the coil wire to make absolutely no way the engine would
accidently start with the breaker bar in place. Stevan Miner Miner
Auto >Service Winnebago, MN
-------------------------------------------------- >From:
<mopar413@xxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:21 PM To:
<mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Cc: "Dave Wilker"
<wilkerbeast01@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: IML: 59 413 engine color
Dave has the right idea. Just do like he says and make
sure the socket is
on right. Workd every time. for me. ---- Dave Wilker >>
<wilkerbeast01@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I have a trick. I place the proper size socket on the
harmonic balancer
bolt, with appropriate extensions, and a good stout
breaker bar. I turn
the crank carefully until the breaker bar is resting on
the left frame
rail (driver's side). Once all the tools are firmly in
place, I bump the
starter. Just a bump. This breaks the bolt loose so you
can remove it
easily. Be careful when doing this. Make sure the
socket is all the way
on and there is no slack in the setup. David C. Wilker Jr. USAF >>>
(RET) ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Rob van der Es To: >>>
mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: IML: 59 413 engine color Hi David, And, btw, do you
have a >>> good trick to remove that
bolt that keeps the
harmonic balancer on the crankshaft? I am in progress of replacing
the >>> timing chain of my
engine, but are a
little afraid to start cause everyone told me that this bolt is
very >>> hard to remove.. Especially with the engine in the car,
ofcourse I
don't want to remove
the engine for a relative "simple" job like replacing
the timing chain!!
Robert
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