Ron & Dave,
Excellent times from your ‘56 Fury Ron! The 277, 303, 318 Poly
engines had more HP&Torque than the competition w/similar cid and my 277 56
Ply surprised a lot of people – especially racing from a 40mph roll up to
105mph; modern Chevy V-8’s w/overdrive couldn’t pull past my Powerflite equipped
277 and WCFB induction.
Question; what is the largest tire you can fit under your ‘56 Fury and
under the ‘56 Dodge? I have 3.73 rear gears in my ‘56 Plymouth and am
measuring the stock wheel wells to see if I can squeak a 275/60-15” Drag Radial
in there...256/50 or 60-15”s fit easily but the 11.0” to 11.2” section width of
the 275/60-15” looks like it will rub on either the inner fenderwell lip or
inside frame area.
By the way, I still have one ‘56 Fury factory aluminum dual quad intake
left, #1735919 that I probably not use.
Gary Pavlovich
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2015 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] 57 Custom Royal Lancer D500
badging
Dave,
Yep, now you got it right. Of all the changes to make a
Mopar run faster I have found the rear end ratio makes the biggest
difference. The 56 Plymouth Fury came through with a 373 rear end.
All the Touqueflite automatic 57 and 58 Fury's and D-500's came through
with 336 ratios which I feel worked against the Touqueflite 3 speed gear
advantage. I feel Chryslers big mistake by not putting a 373 or 391 rear
end ratio in the 57 / 58 as the stock rear end since they were advertised as
performance cars.
General Motors sold 4:11 rear gears like they were going out of style those
GM cars really .performed. Chrysler products eventually went to a 354 rear gears
in the 70's as their performance rear end.
The disadvantage of the higher geared rear ends is highway driving
RPM's are higher so you tend to keep your driving speed under 65 MPH. To offset
the higher RPM's we ran the biggest and tallest tires would could find for
the highway to bring the RPM's down a little.
Ron
PS. Did you know in 1957 the fastest car that did 0 to 60 MPH in 7.5
seconds was the Rambler Rebel and that model only came through with a 411 rear
end STOCK.
In a message dated 9/5/2015 4:09:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dhomstad@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Ron,
Ah, now it makes sense. You left your 56 Fury in 1st gear until 50 ft
from the 1/4 mile finish line. The PowerFlite 1st gear ratio was 1.72, and the
TorqueFlite 2nd gear ratio was 1.45. When a TF shifted into second and rpm
dropped from 5000 to 3000, the PF has a gear ratio advantage and a higher rpm
resulting in more power.
However, the TF has a huge advantage over the
PF while the TF is in 1st gear! First gear in a TF is 2.45, and will last up
to at least 50 mph. And with a 3.91 rear ratio, a TF would have the same
overall gear ratio in 2nd as a PF in 1st, and even better in high.
In
theory, a TF with 3.91 would jump ahead of a PF off the line, at 50 mph go to
2nd, but with higher speed from the start and the same overall ratio, the rpm
should be slightly higher, thus making more power and making the 57 even
harder to catch, then just before the finish, shift into high, but at a higher
rpm for more power at the finish.
Probably the biggest disadvantage
for a 57 is the extra 400 lbs or so they are dragging along.
I'm not
so sure a 2 bbl has any advantage off the line. A WCFB 4 bbl operates on the 2
bbl primaries until engine demand opens the vacuum secondaries for more power.
If the engine doesn't need it, it won't take the extra fuel. If you are
burning rubber up to 30 mph, there seems to be no need for more power at the
launch. Maybe with the lower power of a 2 bbl there will be less wheel spin
and greater traction for more acceleration, for 20 feet.
I don't have
any launch power problems from excess fuel with my dual quad 56. Without a
SureGrip, it just sits there and makes lots of tire smoke, without even power
braking first.
Average times at 15.50 is excellent for anything from
1956. A best at 14.58 seconds is tremendous time! Congratulations!
Dave Homstad
56 Dodge D500
----------------------------------------- From:
Archangel1390@xxxxxxx
To:
Cc:
Sent: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 01:33:06
-0400
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] 57 Custom Royal Lancer D500 badging
Dave,
Perhaps I did not make it clear on my explanation, My Powerflite was
wound tight 5000 RPM's at 50 feet from the end of the quarter mile, the shift
into drive was like a kick in the ass with a big surge forward over the finish
line.
The Powerflite was always in it's power range from 30 MPH to 80 MPH with
a super push into drive a 5000 RPM's. Also my 56 was torque up against the
brake to spin the tires up to 30 MPH when the light went green
.
It is a fact that a 2 bbl carb is faster off the starting line for the
first 20 feet then a 4 bbl carb, and a 4 bbl carb is faster then dual carbs
for the first 20 feet from the starting line.
( 20 feet off the line in drag racing is about one car length)
Dave, on paper what you say makes sense, but my opinion is the
lower first gear ratio should be quicker but the dual carbs from a dead stop
should be quicker but instead they were neutralized by the fact that the 2/4
bbl dumped enough gas to slow the car off the line. When racing a 3 speed
torqueflite they would start closing the gap on my 56 that was
ahead of them, but before they could close the gap between us they would shift
into second gear which took them out of their power range and they would drop
back when in second gear while my 2 speed powerflight was still in its full
power range.
I hung out with guys with 56,57, 58 Fury's and Golden commando. My best
friend Frank Lewis had a 57 Fury 318 and really want to beat my 56. One day he
asked me what I would do if I had a 57 Fury to make it faster? I told him one
four barrow carburetor and a 391-1 rear end gears. Well later I
was sorry that I gave him that advise-------he went to one 4 bbl and 391-1
gears and I had a hell of a time beating him. He would cross the 1/4 mile
finish line right ahead of my rear bumper. If I was slow on the starting line
he could jump me and beat me.
My average time in the quarter mile was 15.50 seconds, later I went with
the factory optional package of dual four carbs, factory hotter cam, 391-1
rear gears, wider tires and traction bars and turned in my best time of 14.58
seconds.------( and still stock and Powerflite)
Ron
In a message dated 9/4/2015 3:21:19 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dhomstad@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Ron,
The 56 Mopars had 15 inch wheels and the 57s had 14 inch wheels.
With the rear ratios you mentioned, the engine rpm in high gear should be
close enough as to make no difference.
With these gears, these
Mopars would need to be moving at nearly 120 mph at the end of a 1/4 mile to
be near the engine rpm red line of about 5000 rpm and wound tight. This mph
needs a car capable of 12 second 1/4s. Ain't no way a stock 56/57 Mopar is
going to get there that fast.
The advantage 57s had was a much
lower first gear in a TorqueFlite.
The advantage 56s had was 400 lbs
less weight.
I'd place my money on a 56 D500 with a TorqueFlite.
Dave Homstad
56 Dodge D500/ TorqueFlite
----------------------------------------- From: "Ron Swartley"
<0000109753cb24f9-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:
Cc:
Sent: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 21:25:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] 57 Custom
Royal Lancer D500 badging
Dan,
The powerflite 2 speed automatic D 500
in 56 has 354-1 or 373-1 rear end gears stock and the 57 D 500 with
Toqureflite 3 speed came with a 331- 1 rear end gears. In a quarter mile
that makes a big difference. I raced both for more than 20 years..
Powerflite 2 speeds were wound tight at the end of the quarter mile and
Toqureflites are not peaked out with stock rears.
Ron Allyn Swartley
Hi Daniel:
I'll have to agree with Gary. Back in June 1956, I purchased a
new D-500 with the Coronet 2-door body. Had the 315 Hemi and a
single carb. Weight with a full tank of gas was 3685 lbs. When
the '57 D-500's came out, one of the dealer's salesmen challenged me to a
race. From a dead start, we were even for about 5 feet and from then
on it was my race! He also had a 2-door model with the 325 hemi and
a sinlge carb. I went into the Air Force in May of 1957 and the only
car that ever beat me until then was a tri-power Pontiac and that was by
only a length or two in 0.6 miles.
Dan Reitz
Bell Canyon, CA
In a message dated 9/3/2015 2:31:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
glpavlovich@xxxxxxx writes:
Daniel,
I
place my "bet" on the lighter chassis; '57 Firesweep, if it is indeed
lighter.
Gary Pavlovich
56 Plymouth w/Poly 318
Stroker
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel
Davids
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 11:22 PM
To:
L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [FWDLK] 57 Custom Royal Lancer
D500 badging
Fellow Forward Lookers,
I’m currently doing a
bit of overdue tuning and sprucing up the engine
compartment of my
1957 CRL.
My example is two-tone green with the D500 engine option
(325 hemi, block
stamped KD500).
I have a question about the
badge on the trunk lid of this year, model, and
engine
option.
Should it not have a red and black “500” emblem in place of
the helmeted
lancer with spear?
The brochures for this year
Dodge are pretty short on explanation of option
packages.
Cheers from wet and soggy Seattle — a nice change
from 10 weeks of straight
sunshine (not normal),
Dan
Davids
P.S. Once we get her running again, we plan to do a runoff
of sorts with my
57 Firesweep, which as the 325 poly.
The numbers
for horsepower and torque would say the CRL is quicker, but my
son
thinks the lighter weight (lower trim) Firesweep will prevail.
Bets?
*************************************************************
To
unsubscribe or set your subscription options, please go
to
http://lists.psu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=l-forwardlook&A=1
Help
the Forward Look with every eBay purchase by starting your search
here:
http://www.ForwardLook.net/eBay
Help the Forward Look
with every Amazon purchase by clicking
here:
http://www.ForwardLook.net/Amazon
*************************************************************
To
unsubscribe or set your subscription options, please go
to
http://lists.psu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=l-forwardlook&A=1
Help
the Forward Look with every eBay purchase by starting your search
here:
http://www.ForwardLook.net/eBay
Help the Forward Look
with every Amazon purchase by clicking
here:
http://www.ForwardLook.net/Amazon
*************************************************************
To unsubscribe or
set your subscription options, please go to
http://lists.psu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=l-forwardlook&A=1
Help The Forward Look with every Amazon purchase by clicking
here!
Help the Forward Look
with every eBay purchase by starting your search
here!
*************************************************************
To unsubscribe or set
your subscription options, please go to
http://lists.psu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=l-forwardlook&A=1
Help The Forward Look with every Amazon purchase by clicking
here!
Help the Forward Look
with every eBay purchase by starting your search
here!
*************************************************************
To unsubscribe or set your subscription options,
please go to
http://lists.psu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=l-forwardlook&A=1
Help The Forward Look with every Amazon purchase by clicking
here!
Help the
Forward Look with every eBay purchase by starting your search
here!
*************************************************************
To unsubscribe or set your subscription options,
please go to
http://lists.psu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=l-forwardlook&A=1
Help The Forward Look with every Amazon purchase by clicking here!
Help the Forward Look with every eBay purchase by starting your search here!
|
Back to the Home of the Forward Look Network
